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  1. 30 Jun '09 13:42 / 1 edit
    Probably not the best thread title as there's always something you can do better...

    drawn game, petroff defense.

    Game 6454856


    At move 11 I was hoping for black to develope his light squared bishop to g4 and after

    12. h3 Bh5 13. Bxh7+ Kxh7 14. Ng5+ Bxg5 15. Qxh5+ Kg8 16. Bxg5 I am up a pawn and his kingside pawns are slightly weakened. I actually didn't have to calculate this at all because I had seen it in a Tal game that I had seen. Unfortunately my opponent didn't grant me my wishes.
  2. Standard member orion25
    Art is hard
    30 Jun '09 14:01
    in the end position you have an active rook and an active knight, you could have played on longer and tryed to win the endgame. Generally when you're pieces are more active you have an advantage in the endgame. You can keep white's pieces at bay with your pieces and bring your king over. I didn't analise the position or anything but I think you could have played on...
  3. 30 Jun '09 14:06
    Originally posted by tmstwrt88
    Probably not the best thread title as there's always something you can do better...

    drawn game, petroff defense.

    Game 6454856


    At move 11 I was hoping for black to develope his light squared bishop to g4 and after

    12. h3 Bh5 13. Bxh7+ Kxh7 14. Ng5+ Bxg5 15. Qxh5+ Kg8 16. Bxg5 I am up a pawn and his kingside pawns are slightly weakened. ...[text shortened]... d seen it in a Tal game that I had seen. Unfortunately my opponent didn't grant me my wishes.
    Think you might be lucky to get away with a draw. If I had black I might play 31... Nf5+ 32. gxf5 Rxd2 33. Rb1 when Black is very active with a menacing queenside pawn majority... after a perfunctory look.
  4. 30 Jun '09 14:12
    Originally posted by Green Paladin
    Think you might be lucky to get away with a draw. If I had black I might play 31... Nf5+ 32. gxf5 Rxd2 33. Rb1 when Black is very active with a menacing queenside pawn majority... after a perfunctory look.
    I saw that combination and I was a little afraid of it. I analyzed it and although he has the queenside pawn majority I had kingside counter play, which was my plan. Although I don't know if it would have worked. I didn't see where he could have pushed his pawns on the queenside after I made an attempt at the kingside though.
  5. Standard member orion25
    Art is hard
    30 Jun '09 14:17
    oops. sorry thought you were black...
  6. 30 Jun '09 14:24
    Originally posted by orion25
    oops. sorry thought you were black...
    haha it's all good. i think you might be right though. if black kept his knight on the board he may have better chances.
  7. 30 Jun '09 15:17
    The only thing I don't like about games like this, where the outcome is unclear and a draw is agreed, is that you robbed yourself of the opportunity to play an endgame. Could you have lost, considering your opponent's higher rating? Yep, but so what? You could have had some fun playing on and maybe even learned some endgame stuff.

    I say, next time, play on!
  8. Standard member orion25
    Art is hard
    30 Jun '09 15:35
    Originally posted by tmstwrt88
    haha it's all good. i think you might be right though. if black kept his knight on the board he may have better chances.
    here, for example, from the starting position: 1...Nc2 /2.Re2 Rd3/3.Kh4 Nd4 / 4.Rf2 and black is completely overwhelming, he just needs to improve his king a little and he cruises on to win, so accepting the draw is correct in my opinion, however you could have had some fun trying to defend it as mad rook stated
  9. 30 Jun '09 17:39
    Originally posted by orion25
    here, for example, from the starting position: 1...Nc2 /2.Re2 Rd3/3.Kh4 Nd4 / 4.Rf2 and black is completely overwhelming, he just needs to improve his king a little and he cruises on to win, so accepting the draw is correct in my opinion, however you could have had some fun trying to defend it as mad rook stated
    didn't even consider him playing Nc2...but after he played Rd3+ my king would have had to go back to g2 not h4 to defend.
  10. Standard member orion25
    Art is hard
    30 Jun '09 20:06
    Originally posted by tmstwrt88
    didn't even consider him playing Nc2...but after he played Rd3+ my king would have had to go back to g2 not h4 to defend.
    Nc2 is meant to improve the position while commiting white to the defence, at the same time black can occupy the 3rd rank with devastating efects (notice that only one of your pawns is on the 2nd rank). Black has a much better position, and can redeploy his knight wherever he wants to. I think that playing the king to g2 would be worse because you get no counterplay (your king turns a bad piece while blacks will soon improve greatly) and therefore it would be harder to advance the pawns with some advantage. But then again this is not so clear... notice that in any variation the king is commited to defending h3.

    I've been looking at this more closely (because I am trying to make my one endgames better) and I managed to draw one game but I think doesn't have blacks best play, any other variations I played out ended with black winning with the pawn majority on the queenside. Anyhow I think the result isn't that clear anymore after: 1...Nc2 2.Re2 Rd3 3.Kh4 Nd4 4.Rf2 Kf8 5.f5 Kf7 6.Bc3 . Black will probably win, but has to be very carefull because a mistake can lead to a draw or even a loss. Bear in mind that white does not want to trade the bishop for the knight as simplification will favour black. In this sense black's knight is kind of pinned to the pawns on g7 and h6. I admit I'm not so shure this is black and whites best play but its the best I could play (for now...). If you want you can analise it further...
  11. 30 Jun '09 20:34 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by orion25
    1...Nc2 2.Re2 Rd3 3.Kh4 Nd4 4.Rf2 Kf8 5.f5 Kf7 6.Bc3 .
    in this variation wouldn't 4...Nf3+ forking the king and bishop be better?

    if rook takes knight then rook takes rook and black has Rook vs Bishop and is more active.

    if rook doesnt take knight then as white im down a piece and loses.

    EDIT: I'll analyze further into Kg2 and see what I can find.
    Thanks for everything though. This is making me look at all the possibilities plus making me study the endgame when usually I shy away from it. lol
  12. Standard member orion25
    Art is hard
    30 Jun '09 20:53
    Originally posted by tmstwrt88
    in this variation wouldn't 4...Nf3+ forking the king and bishop be better?

    if rook takes knight then rook takes rook and black has Rook vs Bishop and is more active.

    if rook doesnt take knight then as white im down a piece and loses.

    EDIT: I'll analyze further into Kg2 and see what I can find.
    Thanks for everything though. This is making me lo ...[text shortened]... at all the possibilities plus making me study the endgame when usually I shy away from it. lol
    you're right of course, missed that one out, if you change the move order you get: 1...Nc2 2.Re2 Rd3 3.Kh4 Nd4 4.Rf2 Kf8 5.Bc3 Kf7 6.f5, which seems more sound (hope I didn't miss any other easy tactics!)
  13. 30 Jun '09 21:04
    Originally posted by orion25
    you're right of course, missed that one out, if you change the move order you get: 1...Nc2 2.Re2 Rd3 3.Kh4 Nd4 4.Rf2 Kf8 5.Bc3 Kf7 6.f5, which seems more sound (hope I didn't miss any other easy tactics!)
    I don't think you did and after looking over Kg2 I restrict myself of any kind of counter play and lose also. It's nice to know I got lucky with a draw...lol
  14. Standard member orion25
    Art is hard
    30 Jun '09 21:22
    I think he accidently cliked the offer draw button... maybe he isnt so good at engames or thought he was losing (maybe he tought he was down half a point of material because he didnt have a bischop!) anyhow good job accepting the draw
  15. 30 Jun '09 21:27
    33.Kh4 is suicide.
    31....,Nc2 32.Re2,Rd3+ 33.Kh4??,Nd4 attacking the rook on e2 and threatening Rxd2! followed by the knightfork on f3 and Black wins a piece and the game.I don't see a way to prevent the loss of a piece.

    White's king belongs on g2 simply because there's nowhere else to go without losing a piece.