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  1. 10 Jul '12 21:05
    Hi, I'm new to the site and thought I would dive right into the life of the site. I would be interested in knowing what some of the better players out there thought of trading a bishop and knight for a rook and pawn. I had an opponent do it recently against me, and I'm sure I didn't play it right, but still-it proved to be a nightmare. Are there any good sources on this, and if so where could I find some literature to help me get a better idea of this. Thx!

    Sara
  2. 10 Jul '12 21:52 / 1 edit
    Generally, the side making the trade of bishop and knight for rook and pawn is making a mistake. It's just easier to play with two pieces than one. I think, as the endgame nears, and the pawns become more important, the rook and pawn may be better. The position/time of the trade makes all the difference in deciding which is better.


    *Edit: Considering this line from your profile:

    "I'm 23 year old female with, on a good day, an OTB rating around 2000. "

    I find the question quite interesting.

    I love internet personalities !!!
  3. Standard member cadwah
    ¯\_(^.^)_/¯
    10 Jul '12 22:13
    Welcome to the site Sara, I'm sure we will be seeing you up at the top of the player tables in no time! Feel free to send me over a game at any time
  4. 10 Jul '12 22:56
    147 Moves
    A Forum Post
    And 3 Private Messages To Me
    You have had a really busy first day, Sara.
    Welcome to the site, and please stop messaging me!!!
  5. 10 Jul '12 23:09
    Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromfics
    147 Moves
    A Forum Post
    And 3 Private Messages To Me
    You have had a really busy first day, Sara.
    Welcome to the site, and please stop messaging me!!!
    I have met some nice people on here already, but I didn't like your insinuation-internet personality. Really?
  6. 10 Jul '12 23:47
    Hi Sara.

    Without any position to mull over or example all anyone can give
    is just the basics.

    (this is lifted from a previous thread. I refer to the under 1400 DB
    because it is a common under 1400 question. )

    Stats appear to favour the holder of the two minor pieces.

    On the 1400 DB. (with over 1½ millon games a good base for reference as it
    is made up with games played by the lads who read these Forums and some
    think this exchange is OK for the Rook).

    Searched for games Where one side has just a Rook,
    other has Bishop and Knight. (and of course Kings & pawns).

    White has the Rook. 2342 games

    White Wins 796
    draws 371
    Black Wins 1175

    Black has the Rook 2205 games

    Black Wins 733
    Draws 390
    White Wins 1082

    Of course the pawns matter and the Bishop and Knight must work well together.
    But overall it does indicate a + for the Bishop & Knight.

    Wins for the Rook in R v B+N at the lower level usually happen when one of
    the minor pieces gets picked up by the Rook pulling off a tactical trick.

    There follows a few examples in Thread 136505
  7. 11 Jul '12 00:33
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    Hi Sara.

    Without any position to mull over or example all anyone can give
    is just the basics.

    (this is lifted from a previous thread. I refer to the under 1400 DB
    because it is a common under 1400 question. )

    Stats appear to favour the holder of the two minor pieces.

    On the 1400 DB. (with over 1½ millon games a good base for reference as ...[text shortened]... ok pulling off a tactical trick.

    There follows a few examples in Thread 136505
    Thanks greenpawn34,

    This is the position of the game when it occurred. I play as white.


  8. 11 Jul '12 00:53 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Sara Brooks
    Thanks greenpawn34,

    This is the position of the game when it occurred. I play as white.


    [fen]r1b1k2r/ppp2ppp/2p2q2/8/8/3P1N2/PPP2KPP/RNBQ4 b kq - 0 10[/fen]
    Well, there is compensation for the side with only the rook... the problem is how to utilize it? I think here as white I would strive to develop my pieces. The king is relatively safe where it is thanks to the knight so maybe I would develop my bishop attacking the queen then develop my knight to c3. I would also look to developing my knight to d4 via c3 to get the queen off the long diagonal and then fianchetto my bishop.
  9. 11 Jul '12 02:01 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Sara Brooks
    Hi, I'm new to the site and thought I would dive right into the life of the site. I would be interested in knowing what some of the better players out there thought of trading a bishop and knight for a rook and pawn. I had an opponent do it recently against me, and I'm sure I didn't play it right, but still-it proved to be a nightmare. Are there any good ...[text shortened]... if so where could I find some literature to help me get a better idea of this. Thx!

    Sara
    Sara, I would recommend this book:
    Rook Vs Two Minor Pieces by Esben Lund (2005, Quality Chess)

    Speaking in very general terms (there are many exceptions), having the bishop
    and knight tends to be more useful in the middlegame, but in the endgame having
    the rook and a *passed* pawn can pose difficulties for the bishop and knight
    (if those are the only remaining pieces). John Nunn considered himself very
    fortunate once to draw an endgame with a bishop and knight against a rook
    and pawn(s) after he was surprised in the opening by Walter Browne.
  10. 11 Jul '12 03:30
    Sara, its a mystery. PM me details and we'll chat.
  11. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    13 Jul '12 02:55 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Sara Brooks
    Hi, I'm new to the site and thought I would dive right into the life of the site. I would be interested in knowing what some of the better players out there thought of trading a bishop and knight for a rook and pawn. I had an opponent do it recently against me, and I'm sure I didn't play it right, but still-it proved to be a nightmare. Are there any good ...[text shortened]... if so where could I find some literature to help me get a better idea of this. Thx!

    Sara
    In my early days of OTB play I used to attack the king bishop pawn wth the castled king in the opening that resulted in that kind of trade. I don't do it anymore, because I don't see any advantage in it aganist good players that know how to use the knight and bishop effectively. Now, I prefer having the two pieces for tactical reasons in the middle game and ending.
  12. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    13 Jul '12 03:20
    Originally posted by Sara Brooks
    Thanks greenpawn34,

    This is the position of the game when it occurred. I play as white.


    [fen]r1b1k2r/ppp2ppp/2p2q2/8/8/3P1N2/PPP2KPP/RNBQ4 b kq - 0 10[/fen]
    This postion will require careful play in the remainder of the opening to make sure the white king is protected and your pieces get good development. Two rooks working together can be very strong, so white should try to force a trade of his remaining rook and trade one of the knights for the bishop and trade the Queens to get down to a knight + bishop verses rook endgame so they can work together to win some of blacks pawns. Then by getting a passed pawn or two in order to try to get a new queen, white probably has the better chances of a win, in my opinion.