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  1. Standard member Krapsparov
    Don't baptise cats!!
    19 Jun '06 14:58
    Hi guys and girls.
    I’m new to this site so I suspect this has been out before.
    If I get myself onto the wrong side of a king verses king, bishop and knight endgame, do we have to play it out?
    The average person can't do it (which includes myself even though Keith Arkle showed me once).
    It just seems pointless playing it out. Is there any kind of arbitration we can call in?
    I don’t mean to sound disrespectful to other players, but unless you know what your doing, its an out and out draw.
  2. 19 Jun '06 15:05
    If your opponent can't mate you in 50 moves since the last capture, then the game is scored a draw.
  3. Standard member Ragnorak
    For RHP addons...
    19 Jun '06 15:08
    Originally posted by Krapsparov
    Hi guys and girls.
    I’m new to this site so I suspect this has been out before.
    If I get myself onto the wrong side of a king verses king, bishop and knight endgame, do we have to play it out?
    The average person can't do it (which includes myself even though Keith Arkle showed me once).
    It just seems pointless playing it out. Is there any kind of arbit ...[text shortened]... d disrespectful to other players, but unless you know what your doing, its an out and out draw.
    The arbitrator would have to decide whether you opponent was an average player?

    The great thing about correspondence chess is that people can educate themselves how to do it.

    Here's a thread where I attempted a tutorial on the mate...Thread 32573

    Here's a site with a database spelling out the prinicples involved...
    http://www.chessdryad.com/education/menagerie/nb_01.htm

    Send this information onto your opponent if you don't want the endgame to be "pointless".

    D
  4. Standard member Gatecrasher
    Whale watching
    19 Jun '06 17:25
    Originally posted by Ragnorak
    Send this information onto your opponent if you don't want the endgame to be "pointless".
    ALternatively, you could just resign.
  5. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    19 Jun '06 19:48
    Originally posted by Krapsparov
    If I get myself onto the wrong side of a king verses king, bishop and knight endgame, do we have to play it out?
    ...

    I don’t mean to sound disrespectful to other players, but unless you know what your doing, its an out and out draw.
    Calling it a draw is proof that you don't know what you are doing. It is a textbook win.
  6. 19 Jun '06 21:03
    I'm assuming your statement, "If I get myself onto the wrong side of a king verses king, bishop and knight endgame" means that you have the bare king. In that case, you can offer a draw, but there's a good chance that your opponent will decline the offer, either because he knows the mate procedure, or he wants to try anyway. If play continues, your opponent has 50 moves to complete the mate, or it's a draw. (But remember, for over-the-board games, you have to claim the draw for the 50 move rule!)

    BTW, it took me about 3 tries before I finally learned the procedure. Having someone show me didn't work for me. I consulted about 6 different endgame books. Most of the book explanations, although correct, were clear as mud to me. Finally, I checked out Pandolfini's Endgame Course. Although a number of people told me not to buy that book because it was TOO basic, it has the clearest explanation of K vs KBN of the books I consulted. The only odd thing about it is that the mating procedure is in 4 parts (lessons 21 through 24), and the lessons are in reverse order. (Don't let that stop you, just start with lesson 24 and progress to 21.)

    Another tip about the procedure - Pandolfini's explanation starts at the standard position with the bare king in the "wrong" corner. Pandolfini does not explain the method of driving the bare king from the middle of the board to the edge of the board and into a corner. Unfortunately, as far as I know, there is no set procedure for doing this. You basically have to coordinate the 3 pieces to progressively take squares away from the bare king. The out-of-print book "Chess The Easy Way" by Reuben Fine gives very brief but good guidance on how to try to coordinate the 3 pieces to do this. I'm sure other endgame books also give general guidance for driving the bare king from the center of the board.

    Pandolfini's procedure is not perfect, as he doesn't discuss all possible defensive variations, but he does explain the basic procedure very clearly. If you decide to give the procedure another try, I suggest you buy or borrow a copy of Pandolfini's book. Good luck.
  7. 19 Jun '06 21:07
    Uhm Bischip+Knight endgame why should it be a draw, i mean almost anyone with good chess experience can make it a win for himself I think that you are lukcy if it becomes a draw
  8. Standard member Ragnorak
    For RHP addons...
    19 Jun '06 21:19
    Originally posted by Mad Rook
    Pandolfini does not explain the method of driving the bare king from the middle of the board to the edge of the board and into a corner. Unfortunately, as far as I know, there is no set procedure for doing this.
    Getting the king to the edge is the most difficult part of the mate.

    The link I posted above (incorrectly it seems) http://www.chessdryad.com/education/menagerie/nb_mate.htm details three patterns to use with annotated examples.

    D
  9. 20 Jun '06 12:54
    The thing is you don't have to know how to do it in corr.! You can look at the proverbial answers in the back of the book.
  10. Standard member Krapsparov
    Don't baptise cats!!
    20 Jun '06 13:47
    Originally posted by Knightlore
    The thing is you don't have to know how to do it in corr.! You can look at the proverbial answers in the back of the book.
    Of course your right!!
    In correspondence games you can quite easily look in a book.
    This opens up another grey area for me as I find little difference in getting it out of a book and putting it into a computer.
    The average player will not under any circumstaces be able to work it out by himself.
    But I do take on everbody elses comments as regards to "You could just resign" LOL as if :o)
    I suppose If I have to play it out, then so be it.
  11. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    20 Jun '06 13:57
    Originally posted by Krapsparov
    The average player will not under any circumstaces be able to work it out by himself.
    In the past few months, I've watched two fifth graders and a seventh grader work it out by themselves, as I worked it out myself thirty years ago. After some practice, I now can do it in a time scramble (a few minutes). At three days per move, the average player should have no difficulty.