bishops vs knights

Originally posted by DeepThought
In general not, there is one position that you can mate from:

[fen]k7/3N4/K1N5/8/8/8/8/8[/fen]

all other positions that aren't rotations or reflections of this are drawn.

I don't think that this position can be forced, can it?

Both Knights are guarding the b7 square. How was Black's King forced into the corner? Which side made the last move here?

In "A Primer of Chess", Capablanca states that "White with the two Knights can only stalemate the King, unless Black has a pawn which can be moved"


Here is the example Capa gives:




[FEN "k7/8/1K1N4/7p/7N/8/8/8 w - - 0 1"]


white to play

1. Ng6 h4 2. Ne5 h3 3. Nc6 h2 4. Nb5 h1=Q 5. Nc7#

Originally posted by DeepThought
It looks like pawns are best of all as 1. Nxh6 Nxh6+ 2. Kxg5 is tempting here.

Not only tempting. That's how I played it.


Wulebgr (1924) - champchess (1984) [C05]
GCS 20 0 GCS, 24.10.2004
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.f4 c5 6.c3 Nc6 7.Bb5 Qb6 8.Bxc6 bxc6 9.Ngf3 cxd4 10.cxd4 c5 11.Qb3 c4 12.Qxb6 axb6 13.a3 b5 14.0–0 b4 15.Nb1 b3 16.Nc3 Ba6 17.f5 Be7 18.fxe6 fxe6 19.Ng5 Nf8 20.Nf7 Rg8 21.Bg5 Bxg5 22.Nxg5 h6 23.Nf7 Nd7 24.Nd6+ Kd8 25.Rf7 Kc7 26.Raf1 Raf8 27.Rxf8 Rxf8 28.Rxf8 Nxf8 29.Kf2 Ng6 30.g3 Kd7 31.Kf3 Ke7 32.Kg4 Nh8 33.a4 Nf7 34.Ndb5 g6 35.Nc7 Bc8 36.a5 Nd8 37.a6 Nc6 38.h4 Kd7 39.h5 g5 40.N7b5 Bxa6 41.Nd6 Ne7 42.Nf7 Ng8 43.Nxh6 Nxh6+ 44.Kxg5 Nf7+ 45.Kf6 Ke8 46.Kg7 Bc8 47.h6 Bd7 48.h7 Ke7 49.g4 Ke8 50.g5 Ke7 51.g6 Nh6 52.Kxh6 Be8 53.g7 Bg6 54.g8Q Bxh7 55.Qxh7+ Kf8 56.Kg6 Ke8 57.Kf6 Kd8 58.Kxe6 Kc8 59.Qa7 Kd8 60.Qb8# 1–0

I used to prefer knights, now I prefer bishops.
It all depends on the situation.

Here's what I think so far.
- If a bishop is worth X, then the bishop pair is worth greater than 2X.
They are like a man and a woman, He's hardly a man by his lonesome, maybe just a "ma", heck a "m" not nearly half a man, but add the better half and they're 100%
- in an endgame if there's pawns on both sides of the board a bishop is usually better, if pawns on just 1 side then the knight is usually better.
- a bishop will dominate a knight if it is 3 squares away up, down, right or left. (it takes away possible squares the knight can move to, usually only allowing the knight to retreat.)
- 2 bishops = VERY GOOD, they work well together and dominate the board.
2 knights = good, but can sometimes be redundant, as they get in each others way at times, or take each other's squares away. They can be good for creating chaos and many possible attacking chances due to the nature of their movement. ie: 2 knights on the board protecting each other is good at times but they also hinder each other this way too, as they reduce the mobility of their fellow knight.
- 1 bishop can usually be avoided by going on the opposite coloured squares, while knights can buzz around and cause the opposing king trouble anytime in an endgame.
- I've used both knights and bishops vs the opposite to tie up a game at the end. ie: to position my knight or bishop in such a way so as to agree to a draw with my opponent. (through using various pawn formations)
- bishops have a weakness and strength in the fact that pawns can block them, but can also mutually support them. Bishops can also protect a large batch of pawns while being mutually protected themselves.
- ending with opposite coloured bishops is usually a draw, ending with both sides having a knight can be chaotic and fun.
- 2 bishops are better than 2 knights in an endgame, and I find are much better at escorting pawns down the board.
- Bishops can have mutual protection with pawns and the queen. Knights really have mutual protection with each other only. Bishops however can't protect each other. They work in pairs and complete each other.

+many more points.
All the above depend on position/pawn structure, etc, etc.
Either way both have their strengths and weaknesses.