My friend once showed me an instructional video he had where White plays c4 before Nc3 when playing against the Center Counter Defense - the main variation where 2...Qxd5, I mean. I can't seem to find any references to lines incorporating this move before developing the Knight. Does anyone know who this guy is (who put out the video) and can anyone refute the move? For example,
1 e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3 c4
This is the line I play, and it seems to work well, but I cannot find any analysis of it through search engines. I want to know it well so that I don't make stupid mistakes.
Originally posted by AThousandYoungThe queen is going to run regardless. c4 leave you with weaknesses in your pawn structure on the Queen's side. Attacking with the knight develops a piece with tempo...In effect, the pawn push allows black to get his tempo back without any further development from White's pieces. Thats my con....the pro is that any defense is what you make of it. If you want to explore this in a number of games against sound players, I'd love to see what you come up with. Remember, if you can't find research, treat it as uncharted waters and pursue it yourself. If you need a guinea pig to be black and test some theory, I will be more than happy to volunteer to be black.
My friend once showed me an instructional video he had where White plays c4 before Nc3 when playing against the Center Counter Defense - the main variation where 2...Qxd5, I mean. I can't seem to find any references to lines incorporating this move before developing the Knight. Does anyone know who this guy is (who put out the video) and can anyone ...[text shortened]... sis of it through search engines. I want to know it well so that I don't make stupid mistakes.
It's the line I always use, and it tends to win, so it's not exactly uncharted waters for me. When I lose it's because I did something stupid due to my lack of experience (like drop a piece en prise) rather than having a positional disadvantage.
I'll set up a game where we can agree to play through it.
Using the Knight in my opinion does not win tempo, because when white takes the pawn on move two, he uses a pawn he already moved, which loses him a developing tempo. Using the c4 Pawn does lose developing tempo, though. You sacrifice developing tempo for space.
1. e4 d5 - no tempo change (NTC) - net 0
2 exd5 - white down one tempo (W-1), net W-1
2 ...Qxd5 - NTC, net W-1
3. Nf3 - NTC, net W-1
3...Q~~ - B-1, net 0
Although the center counter defense looks noobish, but I can understand why players would employ it then and again. It's a simple way for black to get equality, if he can ever overcome white's superior development from the tempi gained from attacking the queen once. The structure of such a game never gives either side an edge, but white must develop quickly and try to win that way, otherwise it should draw. A move like c4 is not my idea of developing quickly, seeing that the queen will have to move anyways, and you can just attack it with the knight while developing a peice.
I found out who came up with this line. It's Nigel Davies. Google searches aren't turning up direct references though.
The idea behind c4 is that even if you move the Knight after it's landed on c3, you still control b5 and d5. Every time you threaten the Queen, that's two more square she cannot go to, and you can use the Knight to threaten her or do other things.
Had a quick look for some games for you, heres a few
(74) Morphy,P - Pindar,E
London London, 1859
1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.c4 Qd8 4.d4 e5 5.Bd3 Bb4+ 6.Bd2 Bxd2+ 7.Qxd2 Nc6 8.Ne2 Nf6 9.d5 Nd4 10.Ng3 0-0 11.0-0 Re8 12.Rae1 Qd6 13.f4 c5 14.fxe5 Rxe5 15.Rxe5 Qxe5 16.Re1 Qd6 17.Qg5 Bd7 18.Rf1 Re8 19.b4 b6 20.Qh4 h6 21.bxc5 bxc5 22.h3 Re3 23.Ne4 Nxe4 24.Qd8+ Qf8 25.Qxd7 Rxd3 26.Re1 Nf6 27.Qc7 Nf5 0-1
[Event "5th North Am.CC (ACM)"]
[Site "San Diego USA"]
[Date "1974.11.10"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Kches6"]
[Black "Ostrich"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B01"]
[Opening "Scandinavian: Pytel-Wade variation"]
1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.c4 Qe4+ 4.Ne2 Qxc4 5.b3 Qd3 6.Nec3 Qd8 7.Bb5+ Bd7
8.Qf3 Bc6 9.Qg3 e6 10.f3 Nh6 11.Bc4 Nf5 12.Qg4 h5 13.Qh3 Nd4
14.Bd3 Nxf3+ 15.Kf2 Bc5+ 16.Ke2 Ng1+ 17.Rxg1 Bxg1 18.Be4 Bxe4
19.Nxe4 O-O 20.Ba3 Bd4 21.Bxf8 Bxa1 22.Bb4 Qd4 23.Nc5 Qxb4 24.Qxh5 b6
25.Na4 Qe4+ 26.Kf2 Bd4+ 27.Kg3 Qxb1 28.Qf3 f6 29.Qg4 Be5+ 30.Kf2 Qxa2
31.Qh5 Bd4+ 32.Ke1 Qxb3 33.Qh4 Qxa4 34.Qf4 a5 35.g3 b5 36.h4 f5 37.Ke2 Qc4+
38.Ke1 b4 39.Kd1 b3 40.Ke1 b2 41.Kd1 b1=Q# 0
[Event "Tatry Open"]
[Site "High Tatras SVK"]
[Date "2001.10.02"]
[EventDate "2001.09.29"]
[Round "5"]
[Result "0-1"]
[White "S Maduro"]
[Black "L Dobrovolsky"]
[ECO "B01"]
[WhiteElo "2156"]
[BlackElo "2410"]
[PlyCount "60"]
1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. c4 Qd8 4. d4 Nf6 5. Nf3 c6 6. Bd3 Bg4 7. Be3 Nbd7
8. h3 Bh5 9. Be2 e6 10. O-O Be7 11. Nc3 Nb6 12. Ne5 Bxe2 13. Qxe2 O-O 14.
Rad1 Qc8 15. Rd3 c5 16. b3 a6 17. Rfd1 cxd4 18. Bxd4 Bc5 19. Ne4 Nxe4 20.
Qxe4 Bxd4 21. Qxd4 Qc7 22. Ng4 Kh8 23. h4 Rfe8 24. Ne5 h6 25. R1d2 Rec8 26.
Qd6 Qc5 27. Qd4 Kg8 28. Qxc5 Rxc5 29. Rd6 Nc8 30. Nd7 Ra5 0-1
Thats all i could find sorry. There is a way you can get a lot of random analysis if you have a chess engine, fritz or chessmaster for example
Yay, its a wonderful opening. The early Bb4+ can be met with Bxf7 Kxf7 then Qb3+ winning back a pawn and disrupting the enemys king, although most players dont try to cash in straight away with this but let the attack build up more. Either way its a good opening for practice dealing with queenside weakness and early Bb4+ :-)
The idea behind c4 is that even if you move the Knight after it's landed on c3, you still control b5 and d5. Every time you threaten the Queen, that's two more square she cannot go to, and you can use the Knight to threaten her or do other things.I played around 700 games with the Black pieces employing the Center Counter. Most of my games were successful and one thing I have notice is the bold White move c4 instead of Nc3. I truly agree that for as long, White can control the b5 & d5 square apparently but it will last not for long. The projected outcome is a weaker pawn structure toward the endgame. Most of the action will be focus on the Q-side especially when White castles on the Q-side. But if White plans an early attack especially on the Q-side with also attention of the diagonal towards Blacks K-side, I believe white can have the tempo here.
