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  1. 07 Nov '08 22:29
    Capablanca: In order to improve your game, you must study the endgame before everything else, for whereas the the endings can be studied and mastered by themselves, the middle game and the opening must be studied in relation to the endgame.

    i have thought about this for sometime and yet it eludes me. what is the great one trying to say other than that there should be a theme, running through the entirety of ones game, not starting at the start, but beginning at the end, for it seems from my other studies elsewhere there are two main scenarios, either we mate or we head for the better endgame. in the first instance we try to keep our pieces on the board to facilitate mate, and on the second instance we try to exchange our pieces and simplify the position, magnifying our meager advantage, albeit a pawn and king verse a lone king etc etc. is there any opening that from the very beginning one should be heading for the better end game? by immediately exchanging, perhaps the Bb5 Sicilian or the Ruy Lopez exchange variation, can anyone explain, with references what the great one was saying - regards in advance Robbie, son of a thousand opening traps, usually placed there by his opponents.
  2. 07 Nov '08 22:56
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Capablanca: In order to improve your game, you must study the endgame before everything else, for whereas the the endings can be studied and mastered by themselves, the middle game and the opening must be studied in relation to the endgame.

    i have thought about this for sometime and yet it eludes me. what is the great one trying to say other than ...[text shortened]... ards in advance Robbie, son of a thousand opening traps, usually placed there by his opponents.
    What he's saying is that it is very important to be able to recognize wins in the ending first. This way you know what you are trying to achieve in the middlegame. You can't just play strong moves and win. You have to be able to transpose/trade down to a winning endgame at some point. Be able to recognize the wins (from the draws) is of the utmost importance.
  3. 07 Nov '08 22:57
    The idea is to get to a pattern/win that you have seen before. If you can't mate with two bishops for instance, then you will be in pretty bad shape if someone sacks his last piece for your last pawn. It will cost you a win.
  4. 07 Nov '08 22:58
    If you know the outcome of a particular endgame then you will know how to play the middlegame so that the outcome of the endgame is in your favor.
  5. 07 Nov '08 23:00 / 1 edit
    Yes the Ruy Lopez Exchange Variation is an endgame minded opening. 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Bxc6 dxc6

    Lets monkey around with the position.

    Play d4 ... exd4 ... and remove that d4 pawn.

    Now take all the pieces off the board, even the kings.

    If you look at the pawn ending, white can force a win with e5, f4, f5, e6 and queens. That is the basic goal.
    Black CAN NOT force a passed pawn on the queenside because of the doubled pawns.

    Basically, what happens is the kingside gets simplified (traded).
    Black's king has to tend to the passed e pawn, while White's king casually strolls over to the queenside and picks off all the pawns.

  6. 07 Nov '08 23:03
    Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromfics
    Yes the Ruy Lopez Exchange Variation is an endgame minded opening. 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Bxc6 dxc6

    Lets monkey around with the position.

    Play d4 ... exd4 ... and remove that d4 pawn.

    Now take all the pieces off the board, even the kings.

    If you look at the pawn ending, white can force a win with e5, f4, f5, e6 and queens. Th ...[text shortened]... , while White's king casually strolls over to the queenside and picks off all the pawns.

    That is why black HAS to be very active on the black side of a Ruy Lopez. He must prove the advantage of the two bishops and get a good game, before the king and pawn ending is reached.

    1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nf6 5.Nxf6+ exf6 !?

    is the exact same pawn ending.

    Again, black has to be careful. This time he doesn't even have the two bishops.

    I have actually played this with black, however. It is playable.
  7. 07 Nov '08 23:05
    Capablanca isn't really saying play endgame openings, like these.
    He just means it is important to know what you are aiming for when you trade down the pieces.
  8. 07 Nov '08 23:06 / 1 edit


    The lost ending

    This didn't come out right.
    Robbie has it right, disregard the kings.
  9. 07 Nov '08 23:07 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromfics
    Yes the Ruy Lopez Exchange Variation is an endgame minded opening. 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Bxc6 dxc6

    Lets monkey around with the position.

    Play d4 ... exd4 ... and remove that d4 pawn.

    Now take all the pieces off the board, even the kings.

    If you look at the pawn ending, white can force a win with e5, f4, f5, e6 and queens. Th , while White's king casually strolls over to the queenside and picks off all the pawns.



    is this also able to be converted into a lost ending?
  10. 07 Nov '08 23:09
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    [fen]4k3/1pp2ppp/p1p5/8/4P3/8/PPP2PPP/4K3 b - - 0 6[/fen]

    is this also able to be converted into a lost ending?
    Yes !!! White is Won !!!
  11. 07 Nov '08 23:15 / 1 edit
    Even an engine can fall for that endgame trap.

    Game 4137275

    This game should demonstrate HOW the ending is won, not just that it can be.

    N.B. I only just discovered my opponent in this game was an engine, which makes it especially satisfying to have beaten him.
  12. 07 Nov '08 23:18
    Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromfics
    Yes !!! White is Won !!!
    wow this is quite amazing paul, it adds a whole new dimension, thus what Capablanca was saying was, if you can understand this position, you should be able to form a long term strategy from the very beginning, playing the exchange variation, simplifying the position, trying to reach this advantageous endgame, by the way, is a bishop and a rook verses two rooks a drawn game?
  13. 07 Nov '08 23:18
    I described the basics of how the ending is won above.
  14. 07 Nov '08 23:20
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    wow this is quite amazing paul, it adds a whole new dimension, thus what Capablanca was saying was, if you can understand this position, you should be able to form a long term strategy from the very beginning, playing the exchange variation, simplifying the position, trying to reach this advantageous endgame, by the way, is a bishop and a rook verses two rooks a drawn game?
    On the bishop and rook vs two rooks question, I couldn't tell you. I haven't really studied endings like that much myself.



    I don't even think I have cracked a book on knight endings.
    Most of my games are decided long before the endgame as well.
  15. 07 Nov '08 23:20
    Originally posted by Tyrannosauruschex
    Even an engine can fall for that endgame trap.

    Game 4137275

    This game should demonstrate HOW the ending is won, not just that it can be.

    N.B. I only just discovered my opponent in this game was an engine, which makes it especially satisfying to have beaten him.
    wow amazing, all the exchanges really benefited you, the more the position was simplified the more potent your position became.