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  1. 21 Jun '08 19:49 / 1 edit
    any of you dudes face or play the Caro Khan, whats with c6, whats wrong with c5, is c6 not a little passive, how can white take advantage of this, any ideas most appreciated and finaly is this sound - regards Robbie

    1.e4 c6
    2.d4 d5
    3.Nf3 !? dxe4
    4.Ne5
  2. Standard member JonathanB of London
    Curb Your Enthusiasm
    21 Jun '08 19:51
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    ... how can white take advantage of this?
    Not with 3. Nf3(??)

    White needs to take on d5, push the e-pawn or play Nc3/Nd2 expecting 3. ... dxe4 4. Nxe4
  3. 21 Jun '08 19:56
    Originally posted by JonathanB of London
    Not with 3. Nf3(??)

    White needs to take on d5, push the e-pawn or play Nc3/Nd2 expecting 3. ... dxe4 4. Nxe4
    yes this is standard practice but look at the weakness of the f7 pawn after Ne5, surely there must be a way to take advantage of this!
  4. 21 Jun '08 19:58
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    any of you dudes face or play the Caro Khan, whats with c6, whats wrong with c5, is c6 not a little passive, how can white take advantage of this, any ideas most appreciated and finaly is this sound - regards Robbie

    1.e4 c6
    2.d4 d5
    3.Nf3 !? dxe4
    4.Ne5
    I don't know anything about 4 Ne5 in your variation, but I have played 4 Ng5!?, which is called the Ulysses' Gambit. It is playable (I suppose) and leads to sharp games. Eric Schiller discusses this variation in his Gambit Opening Repertoire for White.
  5. 21 Jun '08 20:42 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by gaychessplayer
    I don't know anything about 4 Ne5 in your variation, but I have played 4 Ng5!?, which is called the Ulysses' Gambit. It is playable (I suppose) and leads to sharp games. Eric Schiller discusses this variation in his Gambit Opening Repertoire for White.
    mmm, 4.Ng5 looks really interesting, with the same idea, attacking the weak f7 pawn, even if the knight is driven back by say f6 or h6 it can go to e4 and look at the weakened light squares, its a gambiteers dream.
  6. Standard member JonathanB of London
    Curb Your Enthusiasm
    21 Jun '08 21:11
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    ... but look at the weakness of the f7 pawn after Ne5, surely there must be a way to take advantage of this!
    I doubt it.

    Caro-Kann players like to defend and to me f7 doesn't look that weak anyway ... if you're worried about it you can always follow-up with ... Be6 Knights to f6 and d7, fianchetto the king's bishop etc etc.

    Ng5 as suggested earlier looks much better than Ne5 to me - though ultimately still a bit cack I'm afraid. If the best white has is a reference to a schiller book then I think there's a problem.
  7. Standard member JonathanB of London
    Curb Your Enthusiasm
    21 Jun '08 21:17
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    ... even if the knight is driven back by say f6 or h6 it can go to e4 and look at the weakened light squares, its a gambiteers dream.
    This is indeed a gambiteer's dream ... the dream being a game where Black plays nothing but rubbish moves.

    I'm sorry but objectively speaking your idea must be cack. Doesn't mean you shouldn't play it and have some fun and maybe get a result or two against weaker opposition of course.

    You were right with the tone of your original post - ... c6 is much more solid than ... c5. You're just not going to be able to bash it flat in a few moves.
  8. 21 Jun '08 21:22
    Originally posted by JonathanB of London
    I doubt it.

    Caro-Kann players like to defend and to me f7 doesn't look that weak anyway ... if you're worried about it you can always follow-up with ... Be6 Knights to f6 and d7, fianchetto the king's bishop etc etc.

    Ng5 as suggested earlier looks much better than Ne5 to me - though ultimately still a bit cack I'm afraid. If the best white has is a reference to a schiller book then I think there's a problem.
    mmm, i dunno anything about Schiller but I have respect for gaychess player dude, i myself would never play the caro khan, but i am interested in any general strategic advice that could help to broaden my understanding, maybe i should play it and this may help -regards Robbie.
  9. 21 Jun '08 22:14
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    any of you dudes face or play the Caro Khan, whats with c6, whats wrong with c5, is c6 not a little passive, how can white take advantage of this, any ideas most appreciated and finaly is this sound - regards Robbie

    1.e4 c6
    2.d4 d5
    3.Nf3 !? dxe4
    4.Ne5
    The caro-kan is a very solid opening, and recently black has been winning with it at top level chess. You can't smash this opening..unless you play against someone who is a lot weaker then you :o
  10. Standard member irontigran
    Rob Scheider is..
    21 Jun '08 22:29
    Originally posted by Restless Soul
    The caro-kan is a very solid opening, and recently black has been winning with it at top level chess. You can't smash this opening..unless you play against someone who is a lot weaker then you :o
    agreed, in "chess openings for black explained" its one of the 3 that make the top tier, along with 1..e5 and sicilian
  11. 21 Jun '08 23:03
    Originally posted by irontigran
    agreed, in "chess openings for black explained" its one of the 3 that make the top tier, along with 1..e5 and sicilian
    why what's so attractive about it, why play c6 when you can play c5 instead. someone explain to me, greenpawn, madrook, wormwood, gaychessplayer, anyone, what's the meaning of this opening. what does black hope to achieve in general terms, I have many Karpov games on a little plastic chess computer that i bought, very beautiful games they are as well but at present a little beyond my understanding.
  12. Standard member irontigran
    Rob Scheider is..
    21 Jun '08 23:25
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    why what's so attractive about it, why play c6 when you can play c5 instead. someone explain to me, greenpawn, madrook, wormwood, gaychessplayer, anyone, what's the meaning of this opening. what does black hope to achieve in general terms, I have many Karpov games on a little plastic chess computer that i bought, very beautiful games they are as well but at present a little beyond my understanding.
    the good thing about it is theres nothing to hit, you get a nice endgame, and theres a passive-agressiveness that i like about it, and it frustrates white players having to go against it..
  13. 21 Jun '08 23:43 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by irontigran
    the good thing about it is theres nothing to hit, you get a nice endgame, and theres a passive-agressiveness that i like about it, and it frustrates white players having to go against it..
    yes ok, very good, so essentially black is aiming for an endgame, trying to simplify the position through exchanges for an 'advantageous', endgame, white must have some targets though?
  14. Standard member irontigran
    Rob Scheider is..
    22 Jun '08 00:03 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    yes ok, very good, so essentially black is aiming for an endgame, trying to simplify the position through exchanges for an 'advantageous', endgame, white must have some targets though?
    maybe force a target if black gets too cramped.. that can happen with the advance of the h-pawn in the main line at times..

    and sometimes development of the knight that naturally goes to c6 can be a problem as you need to get the bishop out and get the knight to d7
  15. 22 Jun '08 00:17 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by irontigran
    maybe force a target if black gets too cramped.. that can happen with the advance of the h-pawn in the main line at times..

    and sometimes development of the knight that naturally goes to c6 can be a problem as you need to get the bishop out and get the knight to d7
    yeh i was following a game by Magnus Carlsen in which he as white, advanced the h-pawn, it was quite interesting, i don't know why he did it, maybe to protect his knight which was on g3 at the time I think.