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Chandler Corner Confusion

Standard memberSwissGambit
Only Chess 17 Apr '09 19:08
  1. S
    Standard memberSwissGambit
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    17 Apr '09 19:082 edits
    OK, so I'm solving puzzles on greenpawn's site - http://chessedinburgh.co.uk/chandlerarticle.php?ChandID=322

    First one is:


    Black to play

    Which is easy enough to see in the form of a puzzle, but perhaps easy to miss in a real game if not alert enough.

    Solution: Reveal Hidden Content
    1...Rh1+! 2.Kxh1 Kg3 and nothing can be done about ...Re1#. White-s pieces are spectacularly out of play.
  2. S
    Standard memberSwissGambit
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    17 Apr '09 19:12
    Next, we have:


    White to play

    Solution: Reveal Hidden Content
    1.h4+ Kh5 2.Rf5+! gxf5 3.Bf7#


    So again, we have a cute little sac to finish, even though it's not too hard to find.
  3. S
    Standard memberSwissGambit
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    17 Apr '09 19:17
    But the third one is:


    Black to move

    ...which seems a bit too easy. No witty sac to finish - just a banal 'safe' check and all is over!
  4. S
    Standard memberSwissGambit
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    17 Apr '09 19:222 edits
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    But the third one is:

    [fen]8/7p/6pk/1P4r1/2P2QBK/B6P/6r1/6q1 b - - 0 1[/fen]
    Black to move

    ...which seems a bit too easy. No witty sac to finish - just a banal 'safe' check and all is over!
    Aha - I think I have figured it out. There is a diagram error. But, rather than tell what it is, and end up with a thread of just me talking to myself, I will pose a challenge to readers.

    The challenge is: Fix the diagram error in the third problem so that it has a nice solution like the other two problems. [Do not add any new pieces.]
  5. T
    Standard memberTheSign
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    17 Apr '09 19:29
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    Aha - I think I have figured it out. There is a diagram error. But, rather than tell what it is, and end up with a thread of just me talking to myself, I will pose a challenge to readers.

    The challenge is: Fix the diagram error in the third problem so that it has a nice solution like the other two problems. [Do not add any new pieces.]
    Reveal Hidden Content
    Is it the position of White's dark-squared Bishop? If it is on g4, then ..Ra5+, BxR b5+ (winning queen), Qxb5 Rxb5 and mate is inevitable


    Hope this is correct 🙂
  6. S
    Standard memberSwissGambit
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    17 Apr '09 19:34
    Originally posted by TheSign
    [hidden]*[/hidden]

    Hope this is correct 🙂
    Reveal Hidden Content
    1...Rh5+ is not possible - the Rook is pinned!
  7. Subscribergreenpawn34
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    17 Apr '09 19:37
    No error in diagram SG.

    Though good thought provoking challenge.

    I wonder how many found the pretty complicated way to win the last
    diagram when there was am easy-peasy way. (hence no solutions).

    We are programmed when we see a diagram to study the position and look for the flashy finish.

    This rarely happens in OTB games. usually it is the banal way that is
    the only way to win.

    That is why I hit them with the old 1-2-3.

    LOOK AT THE BOARD not at what you are supposed to see.

    If it's the last thing I do, I'll turn you all into chess players.

    (nothing new here folks - Lasker used to de-bunk famous combinations all the time with easier winning moves).
  8. rc
    Standard memberrobbie carrobie
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    17 Apr '09 19:49
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    No error in diagram SG.

    Though good thought provoking challenge.

    I wonder how many found the pretty complicated way to win the last
    diagram when there was am easy-peasy way. (hence no solutions).

    We are programmed when we see a diagram to study the position and look for the flashy finish.

    This rarely happens in OTB games. usually it is the b ...[text shortened]... re folks - Lasker used to de-bunk famous combinations all the time with easier winning moves).
    its interesting you say this, on chesstempo.com, some of the solutions are simply hung pieces, people search for ages for a combination thats not there!
  9. S
    Standard memberSwissGambit
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    17 Apr '09 20:00
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    its interesting you say this, on chesstempo.com, some of the solutions are simply hung pieces, people search for ages for a combination thats not there!
    Reminds me of a puzzle in a Reinfeld book where he tricks the reader by talking about all the positional considerations, then asks for the best move...and it turns out to be a simple mate in 1!
  10. T
    Standard memberTheSign
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    17 Apr '09 20:074 edits
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    [hidden]*[/hidden]
    Reveal Hidden Content
    Oops... I missed that... Then 1.. Qf2+ 2.Qxf2 Rh5+ 3.Bxh5 g5#
  11. S
    Standard memberSwissGambit
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    17 Apr '09 20:09
    Originally posted by TheSign
    That's what I got.
  12. T
    Standard memberTheSign
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    17 Apr '09 20:231 edit
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    No error in diagram SG.

    Though good thought provoking challenge.

    I wonder how many found the pretty complicated way to win the last
    diagram when there was am easy-peasy way. (hence no solutions).

    We are programmed when we see a diagram to study the position and look for the flashy finish.

    This rarely happens in OTB games. usually it is the b re folks - Lasker used to de-bunk famous combinations all the time with easier winning moves).
    GP,

    The game in puzzle 3 is here http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1272300

    And the White's dark-squared bishop is actually a Rook!

    If it was indeed a Bishop, white would've won on move 46. Bf8#

    Invert BoardPGNHeaders
  13. Standard memberPariah325
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    17 Apr '09 22:26
    What about Qe1+ ? Am I missing something. Seems almost the same as Qf2, but no sac needed...
  14. S
    Standard memberSwissGambit
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    17 Apr '09 22:53
    Originally posted by Pariah325
    Am I missing something.
    The rest of the thread.
  15. Subscribergreenpawn34
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    17 Apr '09 23:27
    Originally posted by TheSign
    GP,

    The game in puzzle 3 is here http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1272300

    And the White's dark-squared bishop is actually a Rook!

    If it was indeed a Bishop, white would've won on move 46. Bf8#

    [pgn][Event "Tbilisi"]
    [Site "Tbilisi"]
    [Date "1973.??.??"]
    [EventDate "?"]
    [Round "?"]
    [Result "0-1"]
    [White "Tamas Georgadze"]
    [Blac ...[text shortened]... Re2
    45. Qc7+ Kh6 46. Qf4 Rxg2+ 47. Kh4 Qf2+ 48. Qxf2 Rh5+ 0-1
    [/pgn]
    The position you got from:

    http///here is another totally useless website for you to go.com

    is the game, Georgadze - Kuindzhi Tbilisi, 1973

    Where there is indeed a Rook on a3.

    The position I posted on Chandler Cornered was infact

    Georgadze - Kuindzhi Tbilisi, 1973

    The same game I hear you say.

    No. They played twice, once in the morning and once in the afternoon.

    You most likely do not have the 2nd game on your database because
    a gypsey woman stole the score sheet. (it happens all the time).

    By some fantastic coincidence the positions reached in both
    games were the same 'cept in the 2nd game there is a Bishop on a3.
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