11 Feb 07
Originally posted by amolv06I think you'd have to play the game by e-mail, or using the sites pm system. I think (but don't know for certain) that the prohibition on engine use also extends to unrated games. Incidentally, I don't have Fritz so I couldn't take part anyway.
If anyone has Fritz, I'd like to pit my Chessmaster 10th edition up against him (in an unrated game, of course), and see what the results are. (If this is against the rules please let me know...I don't want to break any rules.)
11 Feb 07
Originally posted by amolv06I got both and I will tell you the result already.
If anyone has Fritz, I'd like to pit my Chessmaster 10th edition up against him (in an unrated game, of course), and see what the results are. (If this is against the rules please let me know...I don't want to break any rules.)
7 min blitz games 6 of them.
Deep Fritz 8 on a 800MHz (no double chips, so really it's Fritz 8)
vs Chessmaster 10000 on a 2.4 Ghz.
Fritz won 3 games, Chessmaster won 3. The only reason Chessmaster won was because it had an endgame tablebase and fritz did not.
Fritz was outplayed in endgames.
So there you have it, Fritz on a 3 times slower computer = Chessmaster 10000.
I've tried similar things with CM vs DFritz 8 vs Fritz 7 on different computers.
RK
11 Feb 07
Originally posted by RahimKInteresting......now repeat the experiment with Fritz on the faster machine and see what the results are. That would tell us something.
I got both and I will tell you the result already.
7 min blitz games 6 of them.
Deep Fritz 8 on a 800MHz (no double chips, so really it's Fritz 8)
vs Chessmaster 10000 on a 2.4 Ghz.
Fritz won 3 games, Chessmaster won 3. The only reason Chessmaster won was because it had an endgame tablebase and fritz did not.
Fritz was outplayed in endgames. ...[text shortened]... 000.
I've tried similar things with CM vs DFritz 8 vs Fritz 7 on different computers.
RK
11 Feb 07
Originally posted by LennyBruceDeep Fritz 8 would cream CM. It wouldn't even be close.
Interesting......now repeat the experiment with Fritz on the faster machine and see what the results are. That would tell us something.
If you get 2 identical computers and put fritz on one and CM on the other one, Fritz would obviously win.
I just had access to a 800 and a 2.4 so since CM is weak, I put it on the faster one.
So if Fritz on a 3 times slower = to CM, then obviously fritz on the faster one would win.
I think these computer vs computer or human vs computer are getting old now. No real point anymore.
RK
11 Feb 07
Rahim, I'm curious, how did you set them up to play each other? Did you somehow have a network link the two of them where all you had to do was watch, or did you have to sit there and make the moves yourself? Also, do you think the results would be the same if you had set the game up with different time controls, I.E. 1 hour per game, or something like that?
11 Feb 07
Originally posted by amolv06I think if you pm'd a game mod telling them of your intention they may relent. I can see nothing wrong with doing an experiment like this in an unrated game.
If anyone has Fritz, I'd like to pit my Chessmaster 10th edition up against him (in an unrated game, of course), and see what the results are. (If this is against the rules please let me know...I don't want to break any rules.)
11 Feb 07
I'm curious too how one would set up a match with Frtiz vs CM on the same computer. Chessmaster has a "pondering" setting, which enables it to calculate while it waits for the opponent to make a move. I don't have Fritz so I don't know if it has the same thing.
If two programs were running on the same comp, Fritz would be using some of the processing cycles that CM would need during it's pondering mode, thus weakening it slightly. Of course, I'm not saying CM has even a remote chance of beating Fritz with or without full pondering power. Just that for CM to play at it's best it would need to be on its own computer, I would imagine..
11 Feb 07
1 edit
Originally posted by RahimKI agree, it would seem that way, but until it's done, you don't really know, do you?
Deep Fritz 8 would cream CM. It wouldn't even be close.
If you get 2 identical computers and put fritz on one and CM on the other one, Fritz would obviously win.
I just had access to a 800 and a 2.4 so since CM is weak, I put it on the faster one.
So if Fritz on a 3 times slower = to CM, then obviously fritz on the faster one would win.
I think th ...[text shortened]... se computer vs computer or human vs computer are getting old now. No real point anymore.
RK
how about it? Reverse the machines and see what happens. Prove the point, don't theorize. That would be the scientific way, wouldn't it?
I play fritz on a super fast PC against an old Fidelity Elite chess computer from about 1985 origins(8 bit, 4 megahertz processor, with 64k of ram.), and fritz wins.....but the games are usually close ,drawn out affairs, and the old Elite actually drew fritz once. (The elite had 2 min/move versus 5 seconds for Fritz)
I'd sure like to see what the Fidelity program would do if it was run with the speed and ram my PC has.
11 Feb 07
Originally posted by UndeadNightOrcI've actually heard about that as well. From what I remember reading, Fritz plays significantly weaker on a machine which has CM running simultaneously on it.
I'm curious too how one would set up a match with Frtiz vs CM on the same computer. Chessmaster has a "pondering" setting, which enables it to calculate while it waits for the opponent to make a move. I don't have Fritz so I don't know if it has the same thing.
If two programs were running on the same comp, Fritz would be using some of the processi ...[text shortened]... t for CM to play at it's best it would need to be on its own computer, I would imagine..
11 Feb 07
Originally posted by amolv06I did it manually. Make moves on both computers myself.
Rahim, I'm curious, how did you set them up to play each other? Did you somehow have a network link the two of them where all you had to do was watch, or did you have to sit there and make the moves yourself? Also, do you think the results would be the same if you had set the game up with different time controls, I.E. 1 hour per game, or something like that?
Let them both think longer wouldn't make much of a difference in my opinion. I've played both and Fritz is considerably stonger.
100-200 points isn't a big deal in Human vs Human but with computers it's huge.
You don't hear about CM vs a SuperGM besides the Larry C vs CM9000 years ago. Now days it's mostly Fritz vs GM's or some other chessbase product.
Fritz would slaughter CM if both were on identical computers.
I've tried Fritz 7 on a 800 mhz vs D. Fritz 8 on a 233 and it's pretty equal.
Setting up CM and Fritz on the same computer can be done but you have to turn off pondering and some other options. CM is a hog for energy and requires a lot of juice and it wouldn't be 50-50, thus I don't run both on the same computer.
Fritz also has pondering, for whoever was asking.
11 Feb 07
Originally posted by amolv06You have to run them on different computers to give them a fair test, and they must be on comparable machines/ram/time, etc. Anything else is meaningless.
I've actually heard about that as well. From what I remember reading, Fritz plays significantly weaker on a machine which has CM running simultaneously on it.
11 Feb 07
Originally posted by LennyBruceYou can run them on the same one but you have to turn some options off. Read an article on chessbase about that, but i'm not into program vs program matches.
You have to run them on different computers to give them a fair test, and they must be on comparable machines/ram/time, etc. Anything else is meaningless.
I just test them out when I first get them, see what they can do and which one is better.