04 Oct 07
Hi
For those of you who dont know who Derren Brown is, he is an illusionist/mind influencer/trickster.Very popular in the UK and I believe the US.
Here is a nine minute video of him playing against 9 very good chess players, it is nine minutes long but well worth the watch 🙂
There will likely be spoilers below this point so watch the video before reading further.
&mode=related&search=VidyaSagar
04 Oct 07
Originally posted by Pigface1Yeah interesting its been posted before, but I don't believe him, I do not believe that he genuinely beat the guy on board 9, who I seem to recall from the last time this was posted that someone said he was rated over 2100! (may have even been over 2200) Whilst that make him the weakest player in that particular group, I think he must have had that guy in on the trick, he would not be able to gamble on beating such a player when he admits himself he isn't that good at chess. It was a good trick though.
Hi
For those of you who dont know who Derren Brown is, he is an illusionist/mind influencer/trickster.Very popular in the UK and I believe the US.
Here is a nine minute video of him playing against 9 very good chess players, it is nine minutes long but well worth the watch 🙂
There will likely be spoilers below this point so watch the video before reading further.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evZmpsl3jI0&mode=related&search=VidyaSagar
04 Oct 07
Originally posted by Pigface1Thread 70746
Hi
For those of you who dont know who Derren Brown is, he is an illusionist/mind influencer/trickster.Very popular in the UK and I believe the US.
Here is a nine minute video of him playing against 9 very good chess players, it is nine minutes long but well worth the watch 🙂
There will likely be spoilers below this point so watch the video before reading further.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evZmpsl3jI0&mode=related&search=VidyaSagar
Still impressive regardless how it was done.
P-
04 Oct 07
Originally posted by Pigface1Don't appologize. New faces here evey day to its good to bring things back up.
Sorry, shouldve realized it had probably been posted. I only just discovered it.
What about that dumb number? That's the one that getting me, unless its just a slight of hand and participating by-stander.
04 Oct 07
1 edit
Originally posted by stevetoddIt was simple slight of hand..placing an ear piece in his ear. Cameras above the boards fed back to monitors in a control room and all the moves were called out to him...so in reality the GM's were playing each other...the guy in the control room used pocket Fritz to beat the extra player. The only problem was getting Derren to move the pieces to the right squares as he struggled to get to grips with notation.
Yeah interesting its been posted before, but I don't believe him, I do not believe that he genuinely beat the guy on board 9, who I seem to recall from the last time this was posted that someone said he was rated over 2100! (may have even been over 2200) Whilst that make him the weakest player in that particular group, I think he must have had that guy in ...[text shortened]... such a player when he admits himself he isn't that good at chess. It was a good trick though.
The GM's weren't in on it but you have to assume they had an idea of what was going on as they may well have recognised the playing styles of there colleagues.
05 Oct 07
Originally posted by MahoutSeems like you actually know rather than guessing, is that the case? I strongly suspected that he was lying when he said he beat that guy on the 9th board, I didn't think that he would simply resort to cheating with Fritz, I thought he had maybe paid that guy to take a dive, at least that guy's integrity is not questionable now that you have revealed this. I never thought that the other guys were in on it, but as I said I wrongly suspected that guy on the 9th board, I suppose that I should have known, I wasn't aware that engines could be concealed so easily.
It was simple slight of hand..placing an ear piece in his ear. Cameras above the boards fed back to monitors in a control room and all the moves were called out to him...so in reality the GM's were playing each other...the guy in the control room used pocket Fritz to beat the extra player. The only problem was getting Derren to move the pieces to the right ...[text shortened]... f what was going on as they may well have recognised the playing styles of there colleagues.
05 Oct 07
Originally posted by Pigface1A lot of people might have joined after it was first shown or maybe even missed it the first time around (in fact I think it has been flagged up a couple of times).
Sorry, shouldve realized it had probably been posted. I only just discovered it.
05 Oct 07
Originally posted by stevetoddWell there were two things that I thought about it: - one was the the hole in the story...which probably only chess players would know...and that is that if you're rubbish at chess (as he claimed) then you would not be able to remember the positions of several games and hold them in your head. The other thing that struck me is what incredible confidence he must display to pull of such a stunt...quite remarkable really.
Seems like you actually know rather than guessing, is that the case? I strongly suspected that he was lying when he said he beat that guy on the 9th board, I didn't think that he would simply resort to cheating with Fritz, I thought he had maybe paid that guy to take a dive, at least that guy's integrity is not questionable now that you have revealed this. ...[text shortened]... I suppose that I should have known, I wasn't aware that engines could be concealed so easily.
05 Oct 07
Originally posted by MahoutFor me the hole in the story is that 'all he had to do was beat a player rated about 2200' (not very easy for someone that is rubbish at chess) not only to beat him but to me very confident that he could beat him, I reckon he either paid the guy to take a dive or as you suggested he cheated with software. It's a pity they didn't produce the scoresheet for that game, then we would know which it was.
Well there were two things that I thought about it: - one was the the hole in the story...which probably only chess players would know...and that is that if you're rubbish at chess (as he claimed) then you would not be able to remember the positions of several games and hold them in your head. The other thing that struck me is what incredible confidence he must display to pull of such a stunt...quite remarkable really.
05 Oct 07
Originally posted by stevetoddYeah your right..that is the other hole! What happened was a camera over the board allowed someone in a control room to view the game and this person in the control room - a chess player - used pocket fritz to play the moves of this game which were called out to Derren via an earpiece. The trick was in sneaking a hidden ear piece into his ear while pretending to run his hands through his hair and in having all the chess players "believe" that he wasn't wearing an earpeice. So all the players knew something was going on, as they will have known that Mr Brown cannot really play chess to GM standard, but they didn't know how it was being done.
For me the hole in the story is that 'all he had to do was beat a player rated about 2200' (not very easy for someone that is rubbish at chess) not only to beat him but to me very confident that he could beat him, I reckon he either paid the guy to take a dive or as you suggested he cheated with software. It's a pity they didn't produce the scoresheet for that game, then we would know which it was.
Just as when a magician makes something disappear and you know it hasn't really disappeared but youdon't know how. The clever twist in this show is that the viewer is told a part of how it's being done - playing one player against another - but not the method - camera, monitor earpeice!
05 Oct 07
Originally posted by MahoutI'm not sure that I believe Derren Brown is bad at chess just because he says he is. He really isn't to be trusted after all.
Yeah your right..that is the other hole! What happened was a camera over the board allowed someone in a control room to view the game and this person in the control room - a chess player - used pocket fritz to play the moves of this game which were called out to Derren via an earpiece. The trick was in sneaking a hidden ear piece into his ear while pretendin ...[text shortened]... one - playing one player against another - but not the method - camera, monitor earpeice!
The computer to beat the "weaker" player sounds very likely. All I'd add is I think Brown's powers of recollection are sufficient to have remembered the other 4 games, and that learning chess notation in preparation for the trick would also hardly be an issue.
I'm still not sure how he "predicted" the number of pieces on the board at the end of each game though.
05 Oct 07
Originally posted by mikenayOne things for sure, D.B is well known for memory feats much larger than the example here, just remembering a few moves is not even close to the most impressive things he`s done.
I'm not sure that I believe Derren Brown is bad at chess just because he says he is. He really isn't to be trusted after all.
The computer to beat the "weaker" player sounds very likely. All I'd add is I think Brown's powers of recollection are sufficient to have remembered the other 4 games, and that learning chess notation in preparation for the trick ...[text shortened]... re how he "predicted" the number of pieces on the board at the end of each game though.
It is of course a trick of some kind, quite clever, but obviously he did not honestly win a game.
05 Oct 07
Originally posted by Pigface1Methinks your missing the point...our superb entertainer Mr Derren Brown does magic tricks and dresses them up as powers of the mind...
One things for sure, D.B is well known for memory feats much larger than the example here, just remembering a few moves is not even close to the most impressive things he`s done.
It is of course a trick of some kind, quite clever, but obviously he did not honestly win a game.
Surely his brilliance is in being able to be in this position and still look reasonably cool and collected to a GM sitting in front of him. He has great abilities it's true, but these are in creating illusions, sleight of hand, showmanship and confidence....the mind powers stuff is all smoke and mirrors.