Does z00t know nothing

Originally posted by wargamer66
But I don't really want to. It's sort of a side-line opening that you guys are saying is played all the time, which I know is not true. I'll let you waste your time instead 🙂

Who did say that this opening is played all the time?

Originally posted by Squelchbelch
What line does GM Gallagher suggest against the Morra?

His main illustrative game is Ackerman-King, Bern 1992. Its basically a line where you make a small center and get your white square bishop out to g4 on move 8 so that it doesn't gum up your pieces.

"It is not always easy to recommend a system against the Morra as Black has four or five reasonable ways of playing" - Gallagher

Originally posted by wargamer66
But I don't really want to. It's sort of a side-line opening that you guys are saying is played all the time, which I know is not true. I'll let you waste your time instead 🙂

the question is not how much it has been played, the question is if there is a concrete, unavoidable variation for black to win an advantage. so far nobody has even tried to give one. vague claims with no concrete variations are just empty words, nothing more. regardless of if it was silman or just some random beginner who made those claims.

Originally posted by wargamer66
His main illustrative game is Ackerman-King, Bern 1992. Its basically a line where you make a small center and get your white square bishop out to g4 on move 8 so that it doesn't gum up your pieces.

"It is not always easy to recommend a system against the Morra as Black has four or five reasonable ways of playing" - Gallagher

so what's the line?

Originally posted by wargamer66
His main illustrative game is Ackerman-King, Bern 1992...

[Event "Open"]
[Site "Amsterdam NED"]
[Date "1992.02.??"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Ackermann, R"]
[Black "King, Daniel J"]
[TimeControl "-"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B21"]
[WhiteELO "2295"]
[BlackELO "2505"]
[BlackTitle "IGM"]
[WhiteCountry "SUI"]
[BlackCountry "ENG"]

1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 Nc6 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bc4 a6 7.0-0 Nf6 8.Qe2 Bg4 9.Rd1 e6 10.Bf4 Qb8 11.h3 Bxf3 12.Qxf3 Be7 13.Rac1
0-0 14.Bb3 Rc8 15.Qe3 b5 16.Bg5 Na5 17.f4 h6 18.Bh4 Ng4 19.hxg4 Bxh4 20.g5 hxg5 21.f5 Nxb3 22.axb3 g4 23.fxe6 fxe6 24.Qf4 Bf6
25.Qxg4 Re8 26.e5 Bxe5 27.Ne4 Qb6+ 28.Kh1 Qe3 29.Rc7 Qh6+ 30.Kg1 d5 0-1


Well wouldn't you know! 🙂
Gallagher's main idea (according to wargamer66 who has the book) is the line that z00t thinks is a poor defence & also the one I said is most often used as the example of best play by black.

Notice also the incorrect 7.0-0? played by Ackerman, instead of 7.Bg5! which I stated earlier was the only progressive move for white.

Inaccurate but common mistakes like this abound in the Morra (especially when white is much lower rated as here) which is why the database results are so poor, MonkeyMaker7...

Originally posted by wormwood
the question is not how much it has been played, the question is if there is a concrete, unavoidable variation for black to win an advantage. so far nobody has even tried to give one. vague claims with no concrete variations are just empty words, nothing more. regardless of if it was silman or just some random beginner who made those claims.

Oh no, there isn't an unavoidable variation that I know of. The materials I have point to equality in most lines, or an edge to black because of material advantage.

Since Zoot said that it wasn't all that popular, I was simply agreeing with that position. I read this thread, and maybe I missed it, but he never said it was refuted. Korch and everyone else seem to think he said that and thats what they are arguing about.

Squelchbelch, what is black to do after 7.Bg5? That looks like an annoying move.

Originally posted by wargamer66
Squelchbelch, what is black to do after 7.Bg5? That looks like an annoying move.

9 times out of 10 they'd play:
7...Nf6 amazingly, pretty much anything else loses!

White's idea with 7.Bg5! is to either play 8.Qb3! as I did here Game 3829842 to destructive effect, or, after the correct 7...Nf6 simply stuffing black's pawn structure with
8.Bxf6...gxf6, 9.0-0
also keeping things nice & free & active.

Who wouldn't want the white side of this in the "notorious 6...a6" black defence to the Morra?

black to play

Originally posted by wargamer66
Squelchbelch, what is black to do after 7.Bg5? That looks like an annoying move.

Refute that. It is not so bad. but I would prefer 7.0-0 anyway.

Originally posted by Korch
Refute that. It is not so bad. but I would prefer 7.0-0 anyway.

7.0-0?
Is the mistake, after 7...Nf6, 8.Bg5 is too late because of 8...e6, 9.Qe2...h6! & the momentum is gone with black having easily survived.
8.Qe2 would allow black central control with 8...Bg4!
& 8.e5 leads to 8...dxe5, 9.Qxd8+...Nxd8, 10.Nxe5...Be6!
8.Qb3...e6 - it's all bad news for white.

Keeping the attack going is the key in the Morra & I don't see a way to do this against this defence with 7.0-0...Nf6 & reasonable play from black. White has few decent attacking options here:

white to move

I'd probably play something like Bg5 and sit on it for a while. White still has counterplay from your diagram. I haven't read the rest of the thread so I really don't know what this is all about lol....

Originally posted by Squelchbelch
9 times out of 10 they'd play:
[b]7...Nf6 amazingly, pretty much anything else loses!

White's idea with 7.Bg5! is to either play 8.Qb3! as I did here Game 3829842 to destructive effect, or, after the correct 7...Nf6 simply stuffing black's pawn structure with
8.Bxf6...gxf6, 9.0-0
also keeping things nice & f ...[text shortened]... black to play
[fen]r1bqkb1r/1p2pp1p/p1np1p2/8/2B1P3/2N2N2/PP3PPP/R2Q1RK1 b kq - 0 9[/fen][/b]

Black's setup is looking exactly like some lines in the Classical Sicilian, and its not too bad to defend with that pawn structure. Have to watch out for the tactical shots, of course, but with an extra pawn and no imminent attack, I would be okay playing black here.

Originally posted by wargamer66
....... with an extra pawn and no imminent attack, I would be okay playing black here.

There are many opening lines when pawn is sacrificed with no immeadiate attack.

Originally posted by mazziewag
What does it mean when your nemesis is from an online chess forum?

You should tatoo a Queen on your chest as part of your super hero symbol.

Originally posted by wargamer66
Black's setup is looking exactly like some lines in the Classical Sicilian, and its not too bad to defend with that pawn structure. Have to watch out for the tactical shots, of course, but with an extra pawn and no imminent attack, I would be okay playing black here.

The point being is that black will have to defend for quite some time.
The strength of the defence is that usually black can take the sting out of the game & stop all tactical Morra motifs from white. Black can also control the center with the pesky Nf6 Nc6 & Bg4.

The correct 7.Bg5! then the exchange on f6 keeps the tactics available at least to some extent.

That is all I want to say about this line thank you very much! 😛