Originally posted by zebanoCan't stand players who play the Taimanov or the Kan setups especially when Black intends to play ...Bb4 lines - I don't think you can get away with the English Attack setup versus the Taimanov.
The only problem I have with the 2. e6 lines is that if my opponent doesn't play Bc4, Bb5 or Bg5 I may want to play e5 in one go.
Reading some of my responses now, I find it quite comical how I was searching for the illusion of the perfect opening and my concern with statistics. I have since grown a lot as a player and I know that many times statistically poor lines may be very good if you go deep enough.
Anyway, in deference to Fischer, I decided to resurrect this old thread and investigate a bit deeper. Looking at Mega Database 2008, d4 scores about 2% higher than e4. However, what really matters is the performance for the best players and this is what vindicates Fischer's claim. 1.e4 is still best by test but ONLY if you go to a high enough ELO range. Using Mega Database 2008 filtered for the last 50 years for 2600 players, 1. e4 gives a performance of around 20 ELO higher than d4. If filtered for 2700 players, this grows to about 30 ELO better. It doesn't seem to affect the statistics if it is for the last 50 or 10 years with either ELO filter.
This suggests to me that handling the advantage that e4 provides may take more skill and study than with d4. e4 seems to concentrate more on temporary advantages like active piece play and development while d4 takes a more methodical approach that often gives rise to more static advantages like more pawns in the center and thus makes the edge easier to keep despite slight inaccuracies. Another interesting trend is that performance with White tends to increase with ELO. If anyone is curious about exact statistics, I can provide them.
As for me, I eventually ended up playing neither 1. e4 or 1. d4. Instead, I play 1. c4, a move that is statistically inferior to both. 😛 Although, I do try e4 and d4 every now and then, I still know far too little to feel totally comfortable with either.
Originally posted by powershakerAck! Chess rap! I'm mortified!
1.)e4 ... is best for the class player. Forget d4 unless you are positionally superior, and that's a rarity for the class player. I play e4 and quit playing d4. If Fischer says it's best, it's best.
Anyway...just wondering if you're going to go for 386 days.
its interesting to look at databases with our level players...
the old RHP one says this of 1.e4...
most common..e5- 48%/42% this is really nice...
2 most common..c5- 40%/48% what!? this hurts...
and most interesting is the caro kann scores 39%/48% WOW...
if you look at the 1900+ the numbers almost flip...
When are people going to play chess and stop worrying about the best opening move and what fritz rates rates as plus 7 points etc etc, people who use engines and fritz to "get them through the openings"are not playing their own game and are CHEATING!!!
If you cannot play a game of chess without resorting to the best point gain via engine analasis then get out of playing chess all together, I am sick of people who cannot play their own game of chess without looking at a database for playing their first 10 moves, its sad, and its not YOU playing, its another GM who once played 10 years ago!!!
Play your own game or dont ever play, any idiot can pay for a database and play perfect chess for ten - twenty moves, be a man/woman and actually play from your own experience you bloody cowards!!!
I am sorry to be quite harsh but chess is a game and to use other games to get you past the first 10 moves or so is just wrong and not using your own head, and frankly I am sick of people just copying the first 20 moves to get them into a safe middle game, its people like you who are destroying anyone wanting to learn how to play chess !!!
A lot of people seem to think it quite acceptable to buy a database and use it, have you worked out the moves ourselves? No I doubt it.... you are cheating to an extent and it puts off people like me from ever studying to get better, why bother looking at the first ten or twenty moves when I can just get a database to play for me??
Chess should be played from your own mind, you should work it out, if you cant then you lose, whats to stop a 1000 rated player using books etc to win games? All I see in this forum is "what moves should I make against D4" etc..... work it out yourselfs!! Stop using engines and databases and actually try to learn the game!!
My apologies to those that play an honest game, this is not aimed at you, I am just so sick of all these database and engine users who are not doing the work themselves, shame on you, you lazy cheaters!
Originally posted by exigentskyThe reason 1.e4 is 'best by test' for the very strongest players (2600+) is in my opinion quite simple. Most of these players play Open Sicilians (2.Nf3 & 3.d4) as white or sometimes also 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 (one of the few really challenging anti-Sicilians). The further down the scale you go, the fewer white players play Open Sicilians, consequently the easier it is for black Sicilian players, most of whom are well versed in the main anti-Sicilian variations.
Reading some of my responses now, I find it quite comical how I was searching for the illusion of the perfect opening and my concern with statistics. I have since grown a lot as a player and I know that many times statistically poor lines may be very good if you go deep enough.
Anyway, in deference to Fischer, I decided to resurrect this old thread and ...[text shortened]... nd d4 every now and then, I still know far too little to feel totally comfortable with either.
Originally posted by Pigface1Learning and improving openings, which these days will include using databases and also engines from time to time, is an integral part of being or becoming a serious chess player. Therefore most of the comments you make are nonsensical and indeed unnecessarily offensive ('lazy cheaters'😉.
When are people going to play chess and stop worrying about the best opening move and what fritz rates rates as plus 7 points etc etc, people who use engines and fritz to "get them through the openings"are not playing their own game and are CHEATING!!!
If you cannot play a game of chess without resorting to the best point gain via engine analasis then ge ase and engine users who are not doing the work themselves, shame on you, you lazy cheaters!
Originally posted by Northern LadOk I apologize for the lazy cheaters comment, it was a tad harsh, but I just beleive that a player who creates and thinks of his/her own moves is better than a person who uses databases etc to decide the move for them.
Learning and improving openings, which these days will include using databases and also engines from time to time, is an integral part of being or becoming a serious chess player. Therefore most of the comments you make are nonsensical and indeed unnecessarily offensive ('lazy cheaters'😉.