Endgame Question / For Specialists

Originally posted by black beetle
And I just noticed a typo (of course 5.c4 Ke7 instead of 5.c3 Ke7).

So I have to stand corrected as following:

{However my refutation begins earlier, for I offered 3. …Ne3 instead of playing 3. …Ke7 as you proposed. Then follows the forced 5.c4 Ke7, and this is the reason why I said I am sure that the line 1.b3 Nb2 2.Kg2 Nd1 3.Kg3 Ne3 4.c4 Ke7 is solid too, and the Black is OK.}

I am sorry for the inconvenience.

In the variation in the post you replied to you also have 7. c4, If you change 5. c3 to 5. c4 then 7. c4 becomes impossible.

Originally posted by DeepThought
In the variation in the post you replied to you also have 7. c4, If you change 5. c3 to 5. c4 then 7. c4 becomes impossible.

Nope; 7.c4 is proposed by AMF, not by me.

So let's sort it out:
In the beginning I offered to DagamoStyle the following:
1.b3 Nb2 2.Kg2 Nd1 3.Kf3 Kf7 4.Kf4 Kf6 5.a4 Ke6 and the position is a draw.

Then AMF refuted the above with this sample line of his:
1. b3 Nb2 2. Kg2 Nd1 3. Kg3 Ke7 4. Kh4 Ne3 5. c3 Kd6 6. Kh5 Nd5 7. c4 Ne3 8. h3 Nf5 9. Kg5 Ke5 10. b4 Ne7 11. h4 Kd4 12. c5 Kc4 13. a3 Kb3 14. Kf6 Nd5+ 15. Kg7 h5 16. Kh6 Ne7 17. Kxh5.

And then I offered
1.b3 Nb2 2. Kg2 Nd1 3. Kg3 Ne3 4.c4 Ke7 5.Kf4 Nc2 6.Kg5 Nb4 7.a3 Nc2 8.Kh6 Nxa3 9.Kxh7 Nc2 and draw (I checked also the subvariation 5.Kh4 Nf5+ 6.Kg5 Ke6 7.a4 Nd4 8.a5 Kd7 9.b4 Nf3+ 10.Kh6 Nxh2 11.Kxh7 and draw).

And thus I claimed that the line 1.b3 Nb2 2.Kg2 Nd1 3.Kg3 Ne3 4.c4 Ke7 is solid.

Originally posted by black beetle
Nope; 7.c4 is proposed by AMF, not by me.

... cut out middle ...

And thus I claimed that the line 1.b3 Nb2 2.Kg2 Nd1 3.Kg3 Ne3 4.c4 Ke7 is solid.

I thought that could be the case - it was easier to go ahead and post than try to work out what everyone was saying. After nearly 150,000 seconds Crafty still hasn´t changed it´s mind about the best line and is currently searching at depth 30. The time it takes an engine to search to a given depth essentially grows exponentially, so there´s relatively little value in continuing. If it doesn´t find anything by the 250,000 second mark I´ll stop the process and check your line.

Originally posted by DeepThought
I thought that could be the case - it was easier to go ahead and post than try to work out what everyone was saying. After nearly 150,000 seconds Crafty still hasn´t changed it´s mind about the best line and is currently searching at depth 30. The time it takes an engine to search to a given depth essentially grows exponentially, so there´s relatively ...[text shortened]... f it doesn´t find anything by the 250,000 second mark I´ll stop the process and check your line.

Very thanx for your patience!

However, although I agree that it's hard to try to work out what everyone is saying, this is exactly what we are doing at CC -I bring up variatiuons and my opponent tries hard to bring up the refutations.


Have a perfect weekend😵

a) I have no issues with the analysis posted by Deep Thought. I am in agreement with his assertion that Black can hold the draw after 1. b3 Ne3.

b) There is no mention of the word "refutation" in my previous posts. I was merely indicating that there were some unexplored lines after 1. b3 Nb2 where the outcome was not clear to me.

c)
black beetle said:

...test shortened...
And then I offered 1.b3 Nb2 2. Kg2 Nd1 3. Kg3 Ne3 4.c4 Ke7
...text shortened...
(I checked also the subvariation 5.Kh4 Nf5+ 6.Kg5 Ke6 7.a4 ...)
...text shortened...

Instead of 7. a4, may I suggest we explore 7. h3.

Black to move.

Originally posted by AlboMalapropFoozer
a) I have no issues with the analysis posted by [b]Deep Thought. I am in agreement with his assertion that Black can hold the draw after 1. b3 Ne3.

b) There is no mention of the word "refutation" in my previous posts. I was merely indicating that there were some unexplored lines after 1. b3 Nb2 where the outcome was not clear to me.

c) ...[text shortened]... ay I suggest we explore 7. h3.

Black to move. [fen]8/7p/4k3/5nK1/2P5/1P5P/P7/8[/fen][/b]

1.b3 Nb2 2. Kg2 Nd1 3. Kg3 Ne3 4.c4 Ke7 5.Kh4 Nf5+ 6.Kg5 Ke6 7.h3 Nd4 8.Kh6 Nf3 9.b4 Ne5 10.h4 Nxc4 draw

The knight blockades the passers and the black king holds the white king to the rook file.

Originally posted by ResigningSoon
1.b3 Nb2 2. Kg2 Nd1 3. Kg3 Ne3 4.c4 Ke7 5.Kh4 Nf5+ 6.Kg5 Ke6 7.h3 Nd4 8.Kh6 Nf3 9.b4 Ne5 10.h4 Nxc4 draw

The knight blockades the passers and the black king holds the white king to the rook file.

No prob at all AMF, I used this word just in order to describe the concept of our mutual analysis -we are all looking for the truth, as King Bobby used to say🙂

Concrete analysis is what we need, and this means analysis in depth in this tricky position whilst having good time; everybody is welcomed🙂

Originally posted by ResigningSoon
1.b3 Nb2 2. Kg2 Nd1 3. Kg3 Ne3 4.c4 Ke7 5.Kh4 Nf5+ 6.Kg5 Ke6 7.h3 Nd4 8.Kh6 Nf3 9.b4 Ne5 10.h4 Nxc4 draw

The knight blockades the passers and the black king holds the white king to the rook file.

Hi again ResigningSoon, and congrats for your comments at our game against PAWN RIOT amongst else🙂

black beetle: Good. I'm glad we are all on the same page - the search for truth.

Resigning Soon: After 1. b3 Nb2 2. Kg2 Nd1 3. Kg3 Ne3 4. c4 Ke7 5. Kh4 Nf5+ 6. Kg5 Ke6 7. h3 Nd4, I prefer 8. h4. The ideas are 8 ... Nf3+ 9. Kh5 or 8 ... Nf5 9. h5.

...And we still are waiting for those endgame specialists; till they come we have to calculate on owr own😵