Endgame Tablebase Use

King Tiger pointed out an online source for endgame tablebases that I was not aware of. I was wondering if anyone uses them when playing their RHP games. Does anyone consider that cheating. Are they allowed like the use of the databases of master and grandmaster games?

Originally posted by RJHinds
King Tiger pointed out an online source for endgame tablebases that I was not aware of. I was wondering if anyone uses them when playing their RHP games. Does anyone consider that cheating. Are they allowed like the use of the databases of master and grandmaster games?

probably, yes, and no

Originally posted by RJHinds
King Tiger pointed out an online source for endgame tablebases that I was not aware of. I was wondering if anyone uses them when playing their RHP games. Does anyone consider that cheating. Are they allowed like the use of the databases of master and grandmaster games?

You clearly have never read the rules, no outside help, no tablebases...

Originally posted by cadwah
You clearly have never read the rules, no outside help, no tablebases...

I read the rules when I first started here. But I don't remember everything now and I can't find them now to re-read them. Maybe, that is why I have never tried to use endgame tablebases. I just did not want to be at a disadvantage by not using them if allowed. However, you are wrong about no outside help. Some outsde help is allowed.

This is all I could find now:

http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=97367

P.S. I did not remember I read them in the RHP Terms of Service. Now I have re-read the rules in the terms of service.

There is nothing said about how the RHP analyze board is to be used. After I found out about that function I started using it during the game. Some on here believe that using the analyze board is just as much cheating as using a chess engine during the game. However, I saw no prohibition from using it during a game.

RJhinds i bet you could fly a plane or do openheart surgery using the RHP analyze board 😀

Am I missing something?

Is there anything different about using analyze board than setting up the game on a chessboard of your own and playing out moves, other than convenience.

Isn't that the whole idea about correspondence chess as opposed to OTB chess.

I agree about the databases, but after a few embarrassments, I have started to consult some good endgame chess books. It was amazing the number of standard ideas that I did not know.

Originally posted by wsossin
Am I missing something?

Is there anything different about using analyze board than setting up the game on a chessboard of your own and playing out moves, other than convenience.

Isn't that the whole idea about correspondence chess as opposed to OTB chess.

I agree about the databases, but after a few embarrassments, I have started to consult some good endgame chess books. It was amazing the number of standard ideas that I did not know.

I think you are right. The whole idea of RHP is to provide a fun way to learn to play better chess. If you are playing a game and you get beat in the opening all the time, then you need opening help. If you can't remember an opening variation that you would like to test out, then open the book and see what it is. Why should you play a move that has already been shown to be no good and struggle through the rest of the game without learning the best play?

To those who read this thread and get confused:
- using endgame tables during your games on RHP is strictly forbidden
- using a chess engine or other help is strictly forbidden
- using the analysis board feature is allowed as is setting up a physical board on your own
- using game databases containing games from human players (no computers!) is allowed

To analyze your game after it has finished, you can use any resource you consider useful.

Originally posted by tvochess
To those who read this thread and get confused:
- using endgame tables during your games on RHP is strictly forbidden
- using a chess engine or other help is strictly forbidden
- using the analysis board feature is allowed as is setting up a physical board on your own
- using game databases containing games from human players (no computers!) is allowed

To analyze your game after it has finished, you can use any resource you consider useful.

I just read RHP Terms of Service and it states:

3(b) While a game is in progress you may not refer to chess engines, chess computers or be assisted by a third party. Endgame tablebases may not be consulted during play but you may reference books, databases consisting of previously played games between human players, and other pre-existing research materials.

So your point: "using a chess engine or other help is strictly forbidden" is not eactly correct. Help from a third party (another human) is forbidden, but not all other help. Note that the Terms of Service state that "you may reference books, databases consisting of previously played games between human players, and other pre-existing research materials.

That means that you can use opening books, endgame books, chess tactics books, and other research materials from human sources. That is, I can use my Chess Life magazine or chess videos on Youtube, or any other sources produced by humans (not computers) before the game began.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I just read RHP Terms of Service and it states:

3(b) [b]While a game is in progress you may not refer to chess engines, chess computers or be assisted by a third party. Endgame tablebases may not be consulted during play but you may reference books, databases consisting of previously played games between human players, and other pre-existing research mate ...[text shortened]... os on Youtube, or any other sources produced by humans (not computers) before the game began.

or you could just look at the position in front of you and play without any outside help at all, LIKE A NORMAL PERSON!

The only time I use "Analyse Board" now is when I think I have a forced mate or want to see what will happen after a particularly long set of exchanges. As has been rightly pointed out, this is no different from setting up a board at home (which I have done for some particularly nasty puzzles posted here by SwissGambit in the past). Whether it is in the TOS or not, you should really be able to play unaided. Where is the fun if not?

Originally posted by morgski
or you could just look at the position in front of you and play without any outside help at all, LIKE A NORMAL PERSON!

The only time I use "Analyse Board" now is when I think I have a forced mate or want to see what will happen after a particularly long set of exchanges. As has been rightly pointed out, this is no different from setting up a board at home ...[text shortened]... r it is in the TOS or not, you should really be able to play unaided. Where is the fun if not?

Well, I can still play unaided, as I did in all my games on RHP before I discovered the analyze board and started using it. I was not even using opening books or other material in my early games. It was not until I got serious on climbing the ratings ladder that I began using every source allowed.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Well, I can still play unaided, as I did in all my games on RHP before I discovered the analyze board and started using it. I was not even using opening books or other material in my early games. It was not until I got serious on climbing the ratings ladder that I began using every source allowed.

Ratings here mean next to nothing, just play and enjoy your chess

I was referring to third party assistance, when I said 'other help'. It is correct that books may be consulted.

I'm glad you have taken the effort to read the terms of service.

the person you are playing should be able to see your use of the analysis board and you his.