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  1. 18 Jul '12 10:54 / 3 edits
    At last a game where I understood what was going on 😀.
    I've been playing a few games against a friend of mine who is hopefully going to join our local chess club in August. I've been telling him to castle and not to move so many pawns, and here I've given some advice on the game for him.

    You lot will have a better idea than me, so feel free to add any extra comments.

  2. 18 Jul '12 11:14
    I really like the game analysis. Really, there's just 4 suggestions you might give him: To play 2. Bf4 instead of 2. f4

    If you feel he's good enough/ready, maybe you can tell him to look into studying the 4 pawns attack(useful opening with f4 against the KID instead of 1...d5) Also, he(me too) should probably read "The Art of Defence" by Andrew Soltis. As chess players, we could all stand to improve our defensive skills.

    You have to make sure he knows where he messed up. Without him sneaking a peek at the analysis, does he know what was wrong with his moves?
  3. Standard member cadwah
    ¯\_(^.^)_/¯
    18 Jul '12 11:26
    Nice analysis however I feel you are a little too harsh on his opening, apart from not spotting the mate in one he has a nice position after 11.... Qf3. As a player of KG I have no problem with an open F file and Qf3 attacks the bishop, threatens Qxf7 and still has the Nc7 threat as a little bonus... I'd take that position 😀
  4. 18 Jul '12 12:06
    I think a lot of your advice in this game is completely incorrect (*) and it will cause harm than good if your friend takes it to heart. I suggest pointing them towards a good book for beginners and perhaps a games collection or two (you can find good collections on the web, but he'll get more out of it if he reads them from a book and plays over the moves on a real board).

    (*) I'll give more details if you like, but it's mostly wrong in my opinion!
  5. Standard member kingshill
    Mr Ring Rusty
    18 Jul '12 12:16
    Originally posted by Fat Lady
    I think a lot of your advice in this game is completely incorrect (*) and it will cause harm than good if your friend takes it to heart. I suggest pointing them towards a good book for beginners and perhaps a games collection or two (you can find good collections on the web, but he'll get more out of it if he reads them from a book and plays over the moves ...[text shortened]... real board).

    (*) I'll give more details if you like, but it's mostly wrong in my opinion!
    I agree that most of the advice is not very good but interesting never the less in showing how your thought process works. It would serve as a good basis for a lesson if someone explained what was wrong.
  6. 18 Jul '12 12:30
    Originally posted by Fat Lady
    I think a lot of your advice in this game is completely incorrect (*) and it will cause harm than good if your friend takes it to heart. I suggest pointing them towards a good book for beginners and perhaps a games collection or two (you can find good collections on the web, but he'll get more out of it if he reads them from a book and plays over the moves ...[text shortened]... real board).

    (*) I'll give more details if you like, but it's mostly wrong in my opinion!
    I think it would be good if you did point out what was wrong, as that will help him and me to improve. I know my moves weren't great, my attacks were pretty lame, but I've played 4 OTB games and 3 or 4 on here against the same opponent. I wanted to punish pawn moves and neglect of defence, which is what I expected to face. Had my opponent developed pieces, I'd have been in a bit of a mess, granted.
  7. 18 Jul '12 12:33
    Plus, I wasn't suggesting in this instance that the knight go to c3, just trying to illustrate how much better central squares are than edge squares.
  8. 18 Jul '12 12:34
    Originally posted by kingshill
    It would serve as a good basis for a lesson if someone explained what was wrong.
    Please do so. 😉

    Fat lady and you are obviously better chess players and both have problems with Dewi's comments. Please point them out, because it was certainly not all wrong. The things he said about pawn moves, development, castling, knight on the rim, outposts are very useful for a beginner. That's my idea, but I'm similarly rated as he is, so please shine your light, cause we are wandering in the dark.

    PS: Bd3 as alternative to Na3 is one thing I don't agree with. Nxd3 cxd3 follows, creating doubled pawns and losses the bishop pair, which is maybe worse than the knight on the rim.
  9. 18 Jul '12 12:39
    Originally posted by tvochess
    Please do so. 😉

    Fat lady and you are obviously better chess players and both have problems with Dewi's comments. Please point them out, because it was certainly not all wrong. The things he said about pawn moves, development, castling, knight on the rim, outposts are very useful for a beginner. That's my idea, but I'm similarly rated as he is, so please ...[text shortened]... g doubled pawns and losses the bishop pair, which is maybe worse than the knight on the rim.
    You're right about the bishop move, I did only look at it quickly as I'm supposed to be working 🙂. Which also explains some of my bad moves on RHP!
  10. Standard member kingshill
    Mr Ring Rusty
    18 Jul '12 12:48
    Originally posted by tvochess
    Please do so. 😉

    PS: Bd3 as alternative to Na3 is one thing I don't agree with. Nxd3 cxd3 follows, creating doubled pawns and losses the bishop pair, which is maybe worse than the knight on the rim.
    Well done..!! This is one of the things that I would have pointed out.

    In this situation Na3 was the best move.

    I'm trying to work out how best to post things on here. When I've tried to post analysis in pgn it's come out in a mess.
  11. 18 Jul '12 12:49
    Originally posted by kingshill
    Well done..!! This is one of the things that I would have pointed out.

    In this situation Na3 was the best move.

    I'm trying to work out how best to post things on here. When I've tried to post analysis in pgn it's come out in a mess.
    Tell me about it, took me 5 minutes to look over the game, and about 2 hours to post the game with comments, so much for sorting next week's bookings out!
  12. 18 Jul '12 12:58 / 3 edits
    Here are my comments about the game.

    1.d4 d5
    2.f4
    This is not the best move because it commits White too early to one particular set-up - the Stonewall Attack. By playing f4 this early Black has plenty of time to decide how he wants to play against it. One player who specialised in this unusual opening was the American Preson Ware, who used something very similar to defeat Steinitz in 1882!
    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1001580
    Apparently this was Steinitz first loss for nine years.
    2. ... Bf5
    Good move. White wants his bishop on d3 in this opening. If he had delayed f4 for a while then perhaps Black would have moved his white-squared bishop somewhere else and Bd3 would have been stronger for White.
    3. Nf3 Nc6
    Probably a little dubious. Often Black wants to play for c7-c5 against 1.d4 openings and the knight on c6 prevents this natural break.
    4.e3 Nb4
    Black wastes two moves with this move as the knight is forced back to c6. It doesn't cause any weaknesses or concessions from White. The only reason it might have been OK was if Black was intending to play c5 after Na3.
    5.Na3
    Only move. "Knights on the rim are dim", but better a dim knight than losing the exchange. That dim knight can relocate to c2 or even to d2 via b1.
    5. ... Nf6
    6.c3 Nc6
    7.Ne5
    Excellent. The main point of White's opening is to establish a knight there. However I wonder if it would have been stronger still if he'd played Bb5 first to pin the knight on c6?
    7. ... Nxe5
    Might be necessary, but White has a fine position now, or at least as good as he deserves after playing a rather dubious opening.
    8.fxe5
    Usually this is the correct way to recapture on e5, but dxe5 looks like it might give White some chances on the half-open d-file. The idea would be to put his a-rook on d1. Probably too slow.
    8. ... Ne4
    Beautiful outpost and of course it can't be chased away by a pawn.
    9.Bd3 e6
    10.O-O Qg5
    Surely 10... Bxa3, 11.Bxe4 Bxe4 12.bxa3 would give Black a big advantage?
    11.Nb5 Bh3
    A big blunder - 12.Qf3 and White has a completely won game. The queen protects g2, attacks the bishop on h3 and threatens mate on f7, and all the while his knight on b5 is still threatening to win at least the exchange!
    12.Nxc7+
    Not as good as Qf3, but still OK.
    12.... Kd8
    13.Nxa8
    Oh well. Game over. 13.Qf3 and White remains a pawn or two to the good.
    13.... Qxg2#
  13. 18 Jul '12 13:02
    One final thought - most coaches / chess teachers suggest that beginners should stick to 1.e4 for a while (i.e. a few years) as the games are likely to be more tactical. Until you are half-way proficient at tactics there's little point trying to learn the more subtle positional ideas. To be honest the games are more fun as well.
  14. 18 Jul '12 13:12 / 1 edit
    Thanks, that's exactly what we needed. I think the general principles I was trying get to convey were right but certainly need to be read in conjunction with fat lady's comments.

    Just as the best general advice you can give to a beginner at poker is 'fold', you don't want them doing it when they hold 4 aces! It's possible to castle into trouble, sometimes a pawn move is best, you don't always have to take back in an exchange etc etc. But at a level below 1000 I think just developing pieces,castling and trying to keep level on material is the easiest way to improve a players competitiveness.

    *edited to correct predictive bloody text
  15. Subscriber Paul Leggettonline
    Chess Librarian
    18 Jul '12 13:16
    Originally posted by kingshill
    Well done..!! This is one of the things that I would have pointed out.

    In this situation Na3 was the best move.

    I'm trying to work out how best to post things on here. When I've tried to post analysis in pgn it's come out in a mess.
    I was going to say the same thing- as soon as I saw the comments about Na3 in the game, I cringed and stopped reading. Sometimes no help at all is better than wrong stuff masquerading as advice.