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  1. 06 May '08 22:21
    Hi all, just played the best game of my life (pgn below), the guy was rated 2008 before the game, I'm Black by the way. He accused me of cheating at about the time all my pieces were getting up close and personal with his King.

    Unfortunately I then went and lost 2 in a row as White against people 200 points lower rated (though higher than me admittedly). Think I used up all my stamina in the first one.

    Apologies for posting it but I'm just so bleedin' chuffed!

    [Event "ICC tourney 323922 (20 20)"]
    [Site "Internet Chess Club"]
    [Date "2008.05.06"]
    [Round "2"]
    [White "*"]
    [Black "*"]
    [Result "0-1"]
    [ICCResult "White checkmated"]
    [WhiteElo "1977"]
    [BlackElo "1471"]
    [Opening "KP: Mengarini's opening"]
    [ECO "A00"]
    [NIC "VO.14"]
    [Time "15:17:42"]
    [TimeControl "1200+20"]

    1. a3 e5 2. e4 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Nc3 Bc5 5. d3 d6 6. h3 Nd4 7. Nge2 Ne6 8.
    O-O O-O 9. Kh1 Nh5 10. f4 exf4 11. Bxe6 fxe6 12. Bxf4 Qh4 13. Bh2 Rf2 14.
    Rxf2 Bxf2 15. Qd2 e5 16. Rf1 Bd7 17. Nd5 Rf8 18. Nec3 Bxh3 19. gxh3 Ng3+ 20.
    Kg2 Nxf1 21. Qd1 Nxh2 22. Ne2 Rf3 23. Ng1 Qg3+ 24. Kh1 Bxg1 25. Ne7+ Kh8 26.
    Nf5 Rxf5 27. exf5 Nf3 28. Qxf3 Qxf3+ 29. Kxg1 Qxf5 30. Kg2 Qg5+ 31. Kf3 Qc1
    32. c4 Qxb2 33. Ke4 Qd4+ 34. Kf3 Qxd3+ 35. Kg4 Qxc4+ 36. Kf5 e4 37. a4 e3
    38. a5 e2 39. a6 e1=Q 40. axb7 Qce6+ 41. Kf4 Q1e3# {White checkmated} 0-1
  2. 06 May '08 22:33
    Originally posted by Knightlore
    Hi all, just played the best game of my life (pgn below), the guy was rated 2008 before the game, I'm Black by the way. He accused me of cheating at about the time all my pieces were getting up close and personal with his King.

    Unfortunately I then went and lost 2 in a row as White against people 200 points lower rated (though higher than me admitte ...[text shortened]... 9. a6 e1=Q 40. axb7 Qce6+ 41. Kf4 Q1e3# {White checkmated} 0-1
    incredibly unorthodox and interesting opening, mingarinis opening, never even heard of it, why you play that move, 1,a3, is there a strategic point behind it or is it simply for surprise ? it feels so good when we win against really higher rated player and if I may share some of your joy, today i passed 1500 mark, which for me is personal best - congratulations and all the best for future - i am looking forward to the day when i will whip Korch!
  3. 06 May '08 22:43
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    incredibly unorthodox and interesting opening, mingarinis opening, never even heard of it, why you play that move, 1,a3, is there a strategic point behind it or is it simply for surprise ? it feels so good when we win against really higher rated player and if I may share some of your joy, today i passed 1500 mark, which for me is personal best - con ...[text shortened]... ulations and all the best for future - i am looking forward to the day when i will whip Korch!
    Thanks, yeah I wouldn't mind beating Korch, either!

    I checked out a3 after the game, check it out on wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Game

    As you can see, usually part of the Vienna game, played on the 3rd move. Must admit I didn't know it, either, just worked on principles and hammered the dark squares around f2.

    Nice work on the 1500 mark.
  4. 06 May '08 23:40 / 1 edit
    my apologies i thought it was you who played 1.a3, however you were black, interesting all the same, its a kind of waiting move designed to restrict blacks options after 2.e4 and Nc3, mmm, anyhow, play it again and again and enjoy the moment, i love it when bad losers get whupped, its so much , i dunno, mmmm sweeter! if i was him I would have resigned on move 29, some guys just like to prolong the agony!
  5. Standard member afx
    07 May '08 21:41
    Great game!
    But 28. .. Qh2# would have shortened it somewhat ;-)
  6. 07 May '08 21:43
    Originally posted by afx
    Great game!
    But 28. .. Qh2# would have shortened it somewhat ;-)
    Ha, I know, ran it through Fritz afterwards (bad habit) and couldn't believe after all that I'd missed mate in one! Think I had a rush of oxygen to my brain.
  7. 07 May '08 22:04
    This was an exciting game... I'm curious as to at what point you felt like you had the upper hand. Was it when you brought the queen down or after the knight destroyed his back rank ?

    Very fun game. Congrats!
  8. Standard member epic0002
    Black Mark
    07 May '08 22:50 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Knightlore
    Ha, I know, ran it through Fritz afterwards (bad habit) and couldn't believe after all that I'd missed mate in one! Think I had a rush of oxygen to my brain.
    let me get this straight... you suck... you beat a 2000 player... you have Fritz... but only use it after the game.

    I definitely can see that bad habit you have
  9. 08 May '08 10:25
    Originally posted by meta x zen
    This was an exciting game... I'm curious as to at what point you felt like you had the upper hand. Was it when you brought the queen down or after the knight destroyed his back rank ?

    Very fun game. Congrats!
    I felt I grabbed the initiative with the Queen move but I've lost too many blitz games from good positions to have felt on anything but shaky ground.

    I knew I was going to sac on h3 fairly early on barring something drastic but had to bring over the rook to f8 to protect the f2 bishop first, once I'd finished that manoeuvre and he allowed the sac I knew I had him.

    In response to epic, I often run games through Fritz without going over them myself first, that's what I consider a bad habit. Plus doing so often brings more questions than answers. For example, I thought my Rf2 was a pretty powerful move as it helps me control the f-file as well as the dark-squares around the White King whether he takes or not, however Fritz prefers taking the rook on f1 instead. Also Fritz says that on move 18 Ng1 instead of Nc3 gives White equality. After having seen enough 'Attack with Larry C" lectures on ICC I have it instilled in me that the position following Ng1 must be better for Black, White just seems so bottled up, defending but surely at a disadvantage.

    I haven't had a chance to fully go over the game under my own steam, yet, but if there are any stronger players who could shed some light over this confusion it would be greatly appreciated.
  10. 08 May '08 13:21 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Knightlore
    I felt I grabbed the initiative with the Queen move but I've lost too many blitz games from good positions to have felt on anything but shaky ground.

    I knew I was going to sac on h3 fairly early on barring something drastic but had to bring over the rook to f8 to protect the f2 bishop first, once I'd finished that manoeuvre and he allowed the sac I k ger players who could shed some light over this confusion it would be greatly appreciated.
    I'm no strong player, but as far as I can see, 18.Ng1 threatens 19.Nf3, with a double attack on the bishop (blocking it's defense by the rook) and the black queen. So, black has to move his bishop back (or trade it, which is to white's advantage). then white can force a release of pressure (beginning with RxR+), and after 20.Nf3, the queen has no good square to go to than d8. maybe even g4 could follow to kick the knight and than trade it.
  11. Standard member SwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    09 May '08 08:02
    Originally posted by Knightlore
    I felt I grabbed the initiative with the Queen move but I've lost too many blitz games from good positions to have felt on anything but shaky ground.

    I knew I was going to sac on h3 fairly early on barring something drastic but had to bring over the rook to f8 to protect the f2 bishop first, once I'd finished that manoeuvre and he allowed the sac I k ...[text shortened]... ger players who could shed some light over this confusion it would be greatly appreciated.
    One thing that is helpful understanding Fritz's analysis is to push it down each separate path and see what's different.

    For example, after 13...Rf2, we get 14.d4 Bb6 15.Rxf2 Qxf2 16.e5. It is clear that Black's f-file control is an illusion, because White can play Qf1 at any time and kick her out. Note that Black's Queenside is undeveloped, and this takes away the option of ...Rf8, keeping the file.

    16.e5 forces Black to make an unpleasant choice. He could try to develop by 16...Bd7, but that drops a pawn. 16...d5 17.g4 traps the Nh5 [although Black gets two pawns for it]. 16...dxe5 17.dxe5 just opens the d-file for White's Queen, and stops Black from playing ...Bd7 for the time being.

    It is clear that Black got forced into a defensive role in that line. Why? Because he never had any local superiority to begin with. White's Q, R, B and N were all there to defend the attack. Black didn't have the numbers to overcome them, especially with his Queenside undeveloped.

    By trading Rooks with 13...Rxf1+, Black can quickly follow with ...Bd7 and ...Rf8. This solves the problem of development.
    ----------------
    The question about 18.Ng1 is much easier to answer. That move defends the h3 square, thus stopping the ...Bxh3 sacrifice that you made so successfully in the game.

    I'm not sure why you think White is at a disadvantage. Again, take Fritz, play out the moves, see how the line goes. 18...c6 19.Ne7+ either forces your Q back to take it [followed by White eating the Bf2], or you get 19...Kh8 20.Nf5! which is a very annoying move for Black. It hits his Queen, and cuts off a defender of the Bf2. 20...Bxf5?? 21.Qxf2 pins the Bf5 and wins. Faced with the double attack, the best Fritz can muster is 20...Bxg1 21.Nxh4 Rxf1 22.Bxg1 Ng3+ 23.Kh2 Rf3!? 24.gxf3 [White could 'save' the Queen, but then Black gets a draw by repeating N checks]. 24...Nf1+ 25.Kg2 Nxd2 26.Bxa7 and White is a pawn up with bN trapped behind enemy lines.

    Of course, given all this, 18...Rf7 is a better try, but White can pocket a pawn with 19.Nxc7 and dare Black to break through on the Kingside. I'm not saying it's not possible, but it's not going to be easy.
  12. 09 May '08 12:09
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    One thing that is helpful understanding Fritz's analysis is to push it down each separate path and see what's different.

    For example, after 13...Rf2, we get 14.d4 Bb6 15.Rxf2 Qxf2 16.e5. It is clear that Black's f-file control is an illusion, because White can play Qf1 at any time and kick her out. Note that Black's Queenside is undeveloped, and this ...[text shortened]... h on the Kingside. I'm not saying it's not possible, but it's not going to be easy.
    Thanks for this, very helpful and interesting, I STILL haven't had a chance to look over the game properly myself - very slack!

    I understand that both sides violated principles (me -development) but think it's interesting that despite drastically weakening the pawn protection of his King and facing an attack there White can still come out ok.
  13. Standard member SwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    10 May '08 02:35
    Originally posted by Knightlore
    Thanks for this, very helpful and interesting, I STILL haven't had a chance to look over the game properly myself - very slack!

    I understand that both sides violated principles (me -development) but think it's interesting that despite drastically weakening the pawn protection of his King and facing an attack there White can still come out ok.
    Well, what did happen is that White was forced to defend his King with pieces. This put him on the defensive early, which is not a good sign when he has the White pieces. The minute he neglected his defense, the game was instantly decided in your favor.

    The computer may give you an evaluation of "=" throughout, but the reality is that many human players will defend inaccurately and leave themselves open to shots like ...Bxh3! Unlike a computer, a human player has a tougher time keeping a cool head in such a position.
  14. 13 May '08 18:28
    Originally posted by Knightlore
    Thanks, yeah I wouldn't mind beating Korch, either!

    I checked out a3 after the game, check it out on wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Game

    As you can see, usually part of the Vienna game, played on the 3rd move. Must admit I didn't know it, either, just worked on principles and hammered the dark squares around f2.

    Nice work on the 1500 mark.
    I was under the impression the Vienna game was 1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Bc4



    with the Falkbeer defence arriving after Nxe4 Qh5 Nd6.
  15. 13 May '08 19:39
    Originally posted by curseknight
    I was under the impression the Vienna game was 1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Bc4

    [fen]rnbqkb1r/pppp1ppp/5n2/4p3/2B1P3/2N5/PPPP1PPP/R1BQK1NR w KQkq[/fen]

    with the Falkbeer defence arriving after Nxe4 Qh5 Nd6.
    The basic Vienna game is 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3. (ECO code C25.) I know the Falkbeer Variation is 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 (ECO Code C26.)

    http://www.maskeret.com/cgi-bin/diagram.cgi?tipo=link&ini=C25&fin=C29

    I'm not sure if the term Falkbeer Defence is used interchangeably with the term Falkbeer Variation. If you have a source showing that the Falkbeer Defence occurs after Nxe4 Qh5 Nd6, I'd be interested in seeing it. (I wasn't able to find anything.) I'm always looking to gain knowledge.