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  1. 22 Dec '13 12:59
    Hey You All,
    I like RHP. It sure is nice to be able to play on here and learn at the same time. It allows examination of our own games and planning our moves. There is also available statistical analysis, but i am not convinced that the site I use is really completely accurate. We may need to come up with our own "plans" when our opponents deviate from database games, but that is nice too. It is nice to be able to play longer than usual "classical" games. We can take what we learn on here and use that knowledge on Over The Board(OTB) games.

    However, I wonder why the same games are not just played the same way all of the time by the winners over and over. If opponents make the same moves that the winners have seen before, what keeps the previous winners from making the same old moves until a deviation occurs by the opponents? In this, playing on here is not individual, but mechanical. And if the winners always win or draw, what is the point of playing those particular winners who just copy databases?

    Nonetheless, I do enjoy RHP so far. How much repetition is played on here? Is there still room for any variations that have not been played before by database players? What would be the point of playing an opponent that keeps on playing database moves? On the other hand, why doesn't everyone use database information to play games on RHP since it is available? Why do players settle for deviations if the database plans always work?

    How much do you all enjoy RHP?
    KingOnPoint
  2. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    22 Dec '13 13:42 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by KingOnPoint
    Hey You All,
    I like RHP. It sure is nice to be able to play on here and learn at the same time. It allows examination of our own games and planning our moves. There is also available statistical analysis, but i am not convinced that the site I use is really completely accurate. We may need to come up with our own "plans" when our opponents devi ...[text shortened]... for deviations if the database plans always work?

    How much do you all enjoy RHP?
    KingOnPoint
    I think you are giving too much credit to databases.

    There is no database solution that "always works"- otherwise chess would be "solved" and we''d all be online playing Diablo III or whatnot.

    There are plans and ideas that have been successful, and therefore repeated, and we can discern those plans and ideas from databases, but every move gives us an exponential selection of options, and no database has a forced mate from the initial position.

    You also have to be prepared for "stats minefields" in the databases. For instance, a move that has a 99% winning percentage may be a losing move- it was a win in the first 99 games, but in the 100th game some GM refuted it, and no one has played it since. That stat will stay at 99% because no one is going there anymore, but it is a definite red herring.
  3. Standard member Schlecter
    The King of Board
    22 Dec '13 15:14
    How to use this databases????
    -
    It seems DB are OK and fair as chess resource for training.

    But OTB the chess player only has his own memory. I think is a good idea not to use during the game this databases.
    -
    So where is the DB...it's the book icon at the bottom of the screen?????
  4. Subscriber Ragwort
    Ex Duris Gloria
    22 Dec '13 15:36
    Originally posted by Schlecter
    How to use this databases????
    -
    It seems DB are OK and fair as chess resource for training.

    But OTB the chess player only has his own memory. I think is a good idea not to use during the game this databases.
    -
    So where is the DB...it's the book icon at the bottom of the screen?????
    RHP has these "databases" to get you started. I don't know of a direct link to the games explorer but it's easy to remember because it has the word sex in it!

    http://www.playtheimmortalgame.com/gamesexplorer

    The other you can find via the site map (bottom of screen) Reference or via the homepage, where the recent checkmates are shown. Click the red pawn icon top left (or black rook on PTIG) and look under the recent checkmates board.

    http://www.playtheimmortalgame.com/chess/grandmaster-games/index.php
  5. 22 Dec '13 15:58 / 1 edit
    Hi KingonPoint.

    "However, I wonder why the same games are not just played the same
    way all of the time by the winners over and over..."

    Some players will go for the same trap over and over again, especialy if it has been succesful.

    Marko Krale goes for (or has gone for...not looked recently) Blackburne's Shilling Trap 129 times.


    Winning 90 of them as Black.

    " On the other hand, why doesn't everyone use database information..."

    Laziness and far too many games on the go is one answer.

    The serious bods on here use a book or a DB to get into a playable
    middle game but unless they are 100% dedicated it can olny be done
    with a low game load.

    I'd never use an online DB. Mostly because of what Paul says and who
    puts these things together. In truth I don't even know where they are.
    (and I don't want to know.)

    I have in the past used an opening book looking for something in the small print
    that maybe worth a try.
    But usually I just rely on an old pet trappy line, my memory, or a line
    or an idea from a previous OTB game.

    If you were really keen one could use the RHP database.

    http://www.redhotpawn.com/gamesexplorer/index.php?movelist=&flip=0&co=-&u=-1&c=1400

    That is good because it gives you info about the lad you are about to play.
    It gives their games.

    For instance if I was playing was you and I felt inclined I could enter
    your name into the DB and I see that in your game v wildcats26 Game 1907705
    You played 3.Nc3 v his Petrov and won.
    (it worked for you in the past, so why ditch it.)

    That's interesting, I played that OTB against Oliver Penrose to dodge his theory
    and he played 3...Bb5 and got a good game. I'd play a Petrov and hopefully go into that line.
    If no 3.Nc3 I'd be OK I know a handful of White lines I'd play the Black side and see what happens.

    Also spotted in that game, not a bad player but not making the absolute best of his position.


    Here instead of the slow and frankly useless move 14.h4 White should
    play 14.Bxg7 which capitalises on White's previous good play.
    (In answer to 14.h4 Black should have played Kf8 or Kh8).

    So that miss coupled with (same game)


    White played 20.Bxf7 here.
    20.Qxf7+ Kd8 21.Nf6 is the wrap up.

    Indicate that perhaps tactical play is not as sharp as it should be.
    Also maybe the lad relaxes when he has a won game or has periods of
    loose play, perhaps moving in a batch of games straight after work or
    when he is being distracted by something else, going through the motions.
    In short, a typical RHP player.

    So I'd keep it flexible, don't force him to find only moves, just wait for the
    blunder or dodgy ' I've run out of ideas (14.h4) type of move.'and pounce.
    It's a game plan.
  6. Standard member Schlecter
    The King of Board
    22 Dec '13 17:37
    Originally posted by Ragwort
    RHP has these "databases" to get you started. I don't know of a direct link to the games explorer but it's easy to remember because it has the word sex in it!

    http://www.playtheimmortalgame.com/gamesexplorer

    The other you can find via the site map (bottom of screen) Reference or via the homepage, where the recent checkmates are shown. Click the red paw ...[text shortened]... recent checkmates board.

    http://www.playtheimmortalgame.com/chess/grandmaster-games/index.php
    Thanks a lot.
    -
    I have never been in this feature.
    -
    This is a powerful weapon.
    -
    But now I have another question:
    -
    How games becomes "Inmortal"????
    -
    This feature could be very nice just for my own games.
  7. Standard member caissad4
    Child of the Novelty
    23 Dec '13 10:44
    Databases and chess engines. I got rid of both almost 4 years ago. I don't need no stinking database or chess engine.
  8. 23 Dec '13 10:59 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by caissad4
    Databases and chess engines. I got rid of both almost 4 years ago. I don't need no stinking database or chess engine.
    LOL, its twoo its twoo!
  9. 23 Dec '13 13:18
    ...

    If you were really keen one could use the RHP database.

    http://www.redhotpawn.com/gamesexplorer/index.php?movelist=&flip=0&co=-&u=-1&c=1400

    That is good because it gives you info about the lad you are about to play.
    It gives their games.

    For instance if I was playing was you and I felt inclined I could enter
    your name into the DB and I see that in your game v wildcats26 Game 1907705
    You played 3.Nc3 v his Petrov and won.
    (it worked for you in the past, so why ditch it.)
    This feature looks great but it seems it hasn't been updated for a while.
    If I type my name in, it gives no data at all.
    Where it does have data for players, the number of games shown is much lower than the number of games they have actually played.
    Has it been discontinued?
    Any chance of this feature being updated or re-instated?
  10. 23 Dec '13 14:29 / 1 edit
    Hi Tommovich

    It was updated just before you joined. No idea when the next update is.

    Which is good news for you because your opponents cannot
    get quick hints on what you play as Black v 1.e4 (The Petrov.)
  11. 24 Dec '13 11:52
    Hi greenpawn34,
    Thanks for your reply.
    I take your point about no games showing means opponents do not know what to expect. That can be handy!
    But I was thinking it could also be useful for looking at my own games.
    Its won/drawn/lost stats for each move made could show which moves have worked for me in various openings and which haven't.
    For example, it might show that I win most of the games when I accept the Queen's Gambit, and lose most of the games when I don't. That sort of information could be helpful.