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  1. Subscriber huckleberryhound
    Devout Agnostic.
    30 Jun '06 19:09
    1.e4 e5
    2.Bc4 ...

    I've been caught out with this move before, i was black, and my opponent went on to check my king with his bishop, forcing my king to move, and causing an embarrassing defeat.
    whats the best defence?
    The second time i encountered this i moved my Queen to e7, but is there a better move/sequence of moves?
  2. Standard member UmbrageOfSnow
    All Bark, No Bite
    30 Jun '06 19:19 / 1 edit
    That is called the Bishop's Opening. The standard "book" move, as well as most obvious seeming to me is just to move 2...Nf6.

    Edit: Can you link us to the games with this move please?
  3. 30 Jun '06 19:20
    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessopening?eco=C24
  4. 30 Jun '06 19:25
    Originally posted by point
    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessopening?eco=C24
    I find this page very useful because it also explains the moves:
    http://www.eudesign.com/chessops/biso-02b.htm
  5. Subscriber huckleberryhound
    Devout Agnostic.
    30 Jun '06 19:31
    Originally posted by UmbrageOfSnow
    That is called the Bishop's Opening. The standard "book" move, as well as most obvious seeming to me is just to move 2...Nf6.

    Edit: Can you link us to the games with this move please?
    This is embarassing, so this hurts to post.
    In this made even worse by the fact that i was playing white.

    Game 2132505

    when i bone things, i bone it bad
  6. Standard member MCA
    TokerSmurf
    30 Jun '06 19:41
    Originally posted by huckleberryhound
    This is embarassing, so this hurts to post.
    In this made even worse by the fact that i was playing white.

    Game 2132505

    when i bone things, i bone it bad
    Just goes to show that the "free" pawn aint all it looked to be.

    3. d4 would have stopped that possibility and given you better control of the middle of the board.

    im sure thats what i would have done at least but then again i do lose a lot lol
  7. Standard member UmbrageOfSnow
    All Bark, No Bite
    30 Jun '06 19:44
    Originally posted by MCA
    Just goes to show that the "free" pawn aint all it looked to be.

    3. d4 would have stopped that possibility and given you better control of the middle of the board.

    im sure thats what i would have done at least but then again i do lose a lot lol
    In that game I have to say I would have gone with d4 as well.
  8. 30 Jun '06 19:49
    Can't see what is wrong with
    5.Kg1 Qxe4
    6.d4

    White has easy development for bishops and is a piece for a pawn up.

    3. d4 exd4
    4. Nxd4 Nc6 is a normal Scotch Opening
  9. 30 Jun '06 19:58
    Originally posted by huckleberryhound
    1.e4 e5
    2.Bc4 ...

    I've been caught out with this move before, i was black, and my opponent went on to check my king with his bishop, forcing my king to move, and causing an embarrassing defeat.
    whats the best defence?
    The second time i encountered this i moved my Queen to e7, but is there a better move/sequence of moves?
    Here is an example of how to deal with the Jerome Gambit

    Game 1896398
  10. 30 Jun '06 20:11
    This is the bishops opening. I understand that it can easily transpose into the vienna.
  11. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    30 Jun '06 20:24 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by huckleberryhound
    1.e4 e5
    2.Bc4 ...

    I've been caught out with this move before, i was black, and my opponent went on to check my king with his bishop, forcing my king to move, and causing an embarrassing defeat.
    whats the best defence?
    The second time i encountered this i moved my Queen to e7, but is there a better move/sequence of moves?
    There are 20 different 2nd moves from black that have been tryed, according to my database. The 10 most popular moves score as follows:

    Move ___ Frequency ____ Score (from white's point of view)
    2. ... Nf6 ___ 69.9% ___ 53.6%
    2. ... Nc6 ___ 13.5% ___ 53.6%
    2. ... Bc5 ___ 9.9% ___ 56.3%
    2. ... d6 ___ 2.0% ___ 68.2%
    2. ... c6 ___ 1.2% ___ 57.9%
    2. ... f5 ___ 0.6% ___ 36.9% (!)
    2. ... Be7 ___ 0.3% ___ 64.2%
    2. ... Qh4 ___ 0.3% ___ 57.5%
    2. ... Qf6 ___ 0.3% ___ 72.5%
    2. ... Qe7 ___ 0.2% ___ 50.0%

    From this 2. ... f5 looks like black's best try, and 2. ... Qe7 looks fine.

    However, digging a bit deeper I found that after 2. ... f5 3. d3 Nf6 the score is back to around 53%. By now there's only 13 games, of which 3 had Steinitz with the black pieces, so it's pretty obscure and 19th Century. Having said that there seems to be plenty of scope for white to go wrong so it's worth looking at.

    You mentionned 2. ... Qe7, which scores 50% (in 16 games), but after 3. Nf3 things start to look good for white - the 50% score is due to the small number of games, rather than the usefulness of the move.

    I play the Sicilian so I don't need to worry about this stuff, so if I'm wrong it is not I who will suffer, but after 15 minutes messing around with a database 2. ... f5 looks like the most promising continuation.
  12. Subscriber BigDoggProblem
    The Advanced Mind
    30 Jun '06 20:29
    Originally posted by huckleberryhound
    1.e4 e5
    2.Bc4 ...

    I've been caught out with this move before, i was black, and my opponent went on to check my king with his bishop, forcing my king to move, and causing an embarrassing defeat.
    whats the best defence?
    The second time i encountered this i moved my Queen to e7, but is there a better move/sequence of moves?
    If this opening defeats you, it's time to work on general defensive technique rather than opening theory.
  13. Subscriber huckleberryhound
    Devout Agnostic.
    30 Jun '06 20:43
    Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
    If this opening defeats you, it's time to work on general defensive technique rather than opening theory.
    It just caught me off guard.
    I'm not versed in openings and theories, i just wing it for the most, and the rest is trial and error.

    I just wondered if there was a definitive response, better than moving the queen.
  14. 30 Jun '06 21:09
    Originally posted by huckleberryhound
    It just caught me off guard.
    I'm not versed in openings and theories, i just wing it for the most, and the rest is trial and error.

    I just wondered if there was a definitive response, better than moving the queen.
    The Jerome Gambit

    1.e4 e5
    2.Bc4 Nf6
    3.Bxf7+

    is unsound because a Bishop is too much to give up for the displacement of the Black King and a pawn. White gives up his only developed piece to achieve this. Therefore I see no value in avoiding the main line because of this gambit. Countering the tactical threats that White will try to generate to justify the sacrifice may be the result of knowing theory or working on defensive technique. If you look at the game I posted above, even with its errors, it will show you there is nothing to fear...
  15. 01 Jul '06 03:48
    Originally posted by LordOfTheChessboard
    This is the bishops opening. I understand that it can easily transpose into the vienna.
    ? Vienna is 1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 which generally transposes into a King's Gambit
    i.e. 2...Nf6 3.f4 d5 4.fxe5 Nxe4 5.d3

    These are the first 5 moves, and may be considered the mainline, but I'm not actually sure. There are no bishop moves here though, so I'd be curious to know how it could turn into this?