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  1. 25 Jul '10 21:11 / 2 edits
    Been messing about with my hand made 1400 DB again.
    (let me know when you are bored).

    The brilliantly name Zorro the Fox User 193938 is
    a in spot trouble. (nice trouble).

    I searched to see how often a K,B & N v K ending...



    ....has popped up and if it has ever been screwed up.

    Over 120 times a player has managed to find
    the mating sequence. Good

    Over 50 players left with B & N v a Bare King have not. 🙁

    You chase the King to the corner square that is controlled by your Bishop.
    So if you have a black sqaured Bishop then you force the King to a1 or h8.

    Some abandon the game as a draw the moment it appears.
    Most try to chase the King to the wrong corner and then give up.

    I speculate that perhaps some players have read:

    "You chase the King to same corner colour as your Bishop."

    And some guy with a 'White' Bishop (but on a black square - The Queen's Bishop)
    have been chasing the King to the 'White' corner.

    In Game 2527058 the lone King was trying to go to the right corner
    to get mated but his opponent kept forcing him to the wrong corner.

    (This game is one of the Walt v bridgemagoo2 match.
    They have played each other over 90 times.)

    Twice Zorro has been the lone King and twice his opponent
    has failed to mate him. Game 6511579 & Game 4133038

    So this confused lad maybe wandering about thinking it's a draw.

    I say confused because Zorro has infact had the B & N
    and in Game 4338968 he mated his opponent.

    He may think he was lucky to mate in this game as his
    opponents have both failed to do in the past.

    The enigma of Zenic. User 408178

    Of course with so many games going on (792 at the moemnt),
    Zenic was bound to supply a few examples.
    He has won 5 times with the B & N v lone King.

    This lad knows his B & N endings. Game 4930810 played in 2008
    is a near perfect example.

    And yet in 2009 Game 6410293 he failed miserably to mate with the B & N.
    This despite the fact he under promoted to a Bishop to do it. 😕



    Zenic played 64...d1=B.

    He then plodded on for 87 moves trying to do it, he even had
    the King bottled up in the correct corner but let him out before giving
    up or his opponent discovered the 'cliam draw' button.
  2. 25 Jul '10 22:04
    There's a chess "folk tale" that Botvinnik stripped a Soviet grandmaster of his title after failing to checkmate with B+N in a tournament game. I think it's everyone's greatest chess fear... So I applaud Zenic for his courage lol. I most definitely would not have the balls/ability, what abot you? Think you could pull it off in a tournament setting?
  3. 25 Jul '10 22:12
    Practised it quite a lot.

    Against an engine I can do it in 2 to 3 minutes.Versus a human I'll need about 10 to 15 minutes.

    And since it's been so long I might fail 😛

    toet.
  4. 25 Jul '10 22:37
    Never had to do it OTB. I would do it if I have to.
    After seeing Zenic might have to give myself a fresher.

    Zenic is possibly showing the danger of playing too many games.
    He was perfect in 2008 and yet a complete duffer in 2009.
  5. 26 Jul '10 06:32
    in a 90 min each match I sacced a minor piece for my opponents final pawn on the basis he only had 1 min left on his clock and could not mate with bishop and knight. He looked at me assuming I had blundered, then smiled and just took the draw without trying in the allotted time span.
  6. 26 Jul '10 07:20
    In the maybe 3000-4000 games of Chess I have played in my life I have not once had to play that ending. I had gotten proficient with it at one point, as I could always mate the computer with B+N, but I'm pretty sure I couldn't do it without looking it over again right now.
  7. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    26 Jul '10 13:00
    in practice it's easier to first chase the defender into the WRONG corner, because that's where he'll head for the best defense, then make him 'wall walk' to the RIGHT corner with a forced sequence with almost no sidelines. this can be practiced up to bullet speed.

    if you go directly towards the RIGHT corner, every time the sequence will be different, and you'll have to think for each and every move separately.



    having good technique means you go for the simple, easy, routine win. instead of the shorter, more complex and blunderprone win.
  8. Standard member nimzo5
    Ronin
    26 Jul '10 13:16
    I have never gotten this ending either- my study time is better spent on queen +pawn vs rook and bishop based on what I get in endgames...
  9. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    26 Jul '10 13:27
    Originally posted by nimzo5
    I have never gotten this ending either- my study time is better spent on queen +pawn vs rook and bishop based on what I get in endgames...
    I've had KNB 3 times, drew all of them on time. closest one was 1 move to mate. the most time I had left was 50s. after a long break I need about a minute, after a little refresher I can do it in 15-20 seconds.


    next time I'll get it right.
  10. Standard member nimzo5
    Ronin
    26 Jul '10 14:42
    Perfecting all the common mates (r+k - 2B etc) is prob worth 20-30 elo points to an aspiring club player- and probably worth 150 in 1min bullet 🙂
  11. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    26 Jul '10 16:47
    Originally posted by nimzo5
    Perfecting all the common mates (r+k - 2B etc) is prob worth 20-30 elo points to an aspiring club player- and probably worth 150 in 1min bullet 🙂
    but much much more in the ability to coordinate pieces.
  12. Standard member nimzo5
    Ronin
    26 Jul '10 16:54
    Exactly, you might only save one or two games in a career by knowing something rote in time pressure, but the knowing the coordination of pieces is with you all the time. Sort of like knowing queen and knight vs kingside pawns another useful pattern to have in toolbox.
  13. Standard member randolph
    the walrus
    26 Jul '10 17:28
    I've had it twice- once OTB and once here. OTB I had it when I was just a 1200 and wouldn't have been able to do it but it started out as RvRNB and I forced him into the corner before the rooks got traded. It was a couple of moves until mate from there. Here I got to RPvNBP and he sacced his rook for my pawn. I practiced about 50 times vs Fritz to make sure I had it down.
  14. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    26 Jul '10 23:42
    Originally posted by DivGradCurl
    There's a chess "folk tale" that Botvinnik stripped a Soviet grandmaster of his title after failing to checkmate with B+N in a tournament game. I think it's everyone's greatest chess fear... So I applaud Zenic for his courage lol. I most definitely would not have the balls/ability, what abot you? Think you could pull it off in a tournament setting?
    It was GM Florin Gheorghiu, and Botvinnik remarked with disdain that any GM who couldn't do it should have his title revoked. He didn't have the actual authority to do so, but he reigned in the court of public opinion for a long time.