Originally posted by PolicestateDitto. :p Seriously, that's exactly what I was going to write.
Disagree with both statements.
How far you think ahead is not a measure of being a better player - it depends entirely on what you are thinking. It is true that if a player cannot visualise more than a handful of moves ahead, they might struggle to improve. It is also true that all Grandmasters have the ability to calculate their way through long and ...[text shortened]... ove, this is unwise in correspondence chess, and a plain waste of valuable time over the board!
Originally posted by FlyingDutchmanI can never see 8 or 9 moves ahead unless it is totally forced and even then I would have difficulty. Even 4 or 5 is pretty good at any level.
I assume you mean think.
If it's your move, 4 or 5 at 1500, and 8 or 9 at 2000.
If it's your opponent's move, no need. 😛
The hard thing is to be able to assess the position correctly after those 4 or 5 moves.
(PS. I assume you mean moves not ply. 4 or 5 moves is 8 to 10 ply)
Let's say you're you're deciding between two moves you could possibly make. If your oponent has five decent replies to each and for each of these you have three responses to consider you can easily get bogged down just thinking 1 move (2ply) ahead. If, on the other hand, your oponent's reply to the moves your considering are forced and the follow up is obvious you may not have trouble thinking 10 or more moves ahead. I think at some point or other a lot of beginners run across the deep analysis of a position and unduly conclude that their great playing strength is a function of their abilitiy to "see so many moves ahead", and that their own path to chess strength involves working on their own ability to do so. It's useless, for example, to be thinking 5 or 6 moves into the future if you've missed your opponent's crushing reply on move 2.
Originally posted by Dragon Fireindeed. when you think about 4-5 move mates, even those can be pretty damn hard, even though they are forced variations. 4-5 moves in a complex middlegame position with only slight differences in evaluation, well that's close to impossible to do correctly and exhaustively on our level.
I can never see 8 or 9 moves ahead unless it is totally forced and even then I would have difficulty. Even 4 or 5 is pretty good at any level.
The hard thing is to be able to assess the position correctly after those 4 or 5 moves.
(PS. I assume you mean moves not ply. 4 or 5 moves is 8 to 10 ply)
which is why a sensible player might steer clear from such positions to begin with. unless he's in desperate need of the element of chance of course. 🙂
This is not the the answer you want to hear.
You must think as many moves ahead as you need to. In sharp or simple positions, this may be 20 moves, In complex or quiet positions, this may only be one.
There's a point when the time you spend calculating would be better suited to truly trying to understand what is happening on the board.
Calculation in endings is pretty forced though. In openings, it is not usually so. It's true that if your opponent cooperates, you can simply use your memory, but what do you do when you're out of book or if he deviates early. Clearly it is important to understand the positions well.
most people, including grandmasters can only visulise 4-5 moves ahead acurrately, the difference between the strong and the weak is knowing what to think about.
Apparently a master sees patterns as wholes, such as a fianchetto position is one whole. knowing how to attack it ie. advance h pawn, trade the bishop etc is another whole.
An endgame procedure can take 10-20 moves, you cannot calculate that but they know what to do from knowledge and experience.
Originally posted by jonrothwellexceptions to every rule
most people, including grandmasters can only visulise 4-5 moves ahead acurrately, the difference between the strong and the weak is knowing what to think about.
Apparently a master sees patterns as wholes, such as a fianchetto position is one whole. knowing how to attack it ie. advance h pawn, trade the bishop etc is another whole.
An endgame proc ...[text shortened]... e 10-20 moves, you cannot calculate that but they know what to do from knowledge and experience.
I personally think 100 moves ahead but frequently lose when the game finishes after 50 🙂