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  1. 02 Aug '07 19:25
    Hey, i'm tryin to figure out if it's really worth to sack my knight for the f-pawn early in the game. I find it works quite well because it is a major weekness... but i'm wondering if it's really worth it to do that.
  2. 02 Aug '07 19:35
    Originally posted by pkerpk
    Hey, i'm tryin to figure out if it's really worth to sack my knight for the f-pawn early in the game. I find it works quite well because it is a major weekness... but i'm wondering if it's really worth it to do that.
    I doubt it
  3. Standard member anthias
    ambitious player
    02 Aug '07 19:39
    All generalizations are wrong So, it always depends on the postion...
  4. 02 Aug '07 19:39
    Originally posted by Shinidoki
    I doubt it
    you have a point, but then when the guy castles there's a big open diagonal hole in the middle of it.
  5. 02 Aug '07 19:42
    Originally posted by pkerpk
    you have a point, but then when the guy castles there's a big open diagonal hole in the middle of it.
    my bad, he cant castle after that
  6. 02 Aug '07 19:43
    Originally posted by pkerpk
    Hey, i'm tryin to figure out if it's really worth to sack my knight for the f-pawn early in the game. I find it works quite well because it is a major weekness... but i'm wondering if it's really worth it to do that.
    If the specific position means it will lead to victory then yes. Chances are the answer is no. Losing your f-pawn CAN be bad. Being a knight down IS bad, unless you know you can make the advantage pay quickly. True sacrifices are rare, and you normally have to be pretty damn good (or your opponent pretty damn poor) to make them winning
  7. 02 Aug '07 19:45
    Originally posted by pkerpk
    you have a point, but then when the guy castles there's a big open diagonal hole in the middle of it.
    But you are a piece down. Why do you assume the hole is more dangerous? From the point of the sacrifice, not only is the material balance against you, positionally your opponent can just look to simplify the position. This means unless you had a plan at the point of sacrifice, your chances are bleak.
  8. 02 Aug '07 19:47
    Originally posted by Policestate
    But you are a piece down. Why do you assume the hole is more dangerous? From the point of the sacrifice, not only is the material balance against you, positionally your opponent can just look to simplify the position. This means unless you had a plan at the point of sacrifice, your chances are bleak.
    This is a good point, but he can't even castle!
  9. 02 Aug '07 19:52
    Originally posted by pkerpk
    This is a good point, but he can't even castle!
    We are in danger of commenting on an ongoing game. I reiterate, dont throw away material to expose the king unless your position allows you to exploit it quickly. If you need to try it to see why, then go for it!
  10. 02 Aug '07 19:57 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by pkerpk
    Hey, i'm tryin to figure out if it's really worth to sack my knight for the f-pawn early in the game. I find it works quite well because it is a major weekness... but i'm wondering if it's really worth it to do that.
    Although it does depend on the position, I'm going to have to say the answer is no most of the time. It's a common theme among people starting out in chess to sac a piece on f7 or f2 in hope of attack, but you have to realize that the other side gets compensation for it. Look at the following position. Altough this really isn't a sac you can see why the idea can backfire.



    Black might try 1...Nxe4, from which white should play 2.Nxe4 d5 3.Bd3 dxe4 4.Bxe4. Instead if white tries 2.Bxf7+, black gets the better game..i.e. 2...Kxf7 3.Nxe4 d5 4.Nc3 Rf8, followed by Kg8 and black has castled 'manually'....look at the position, black has the center and pressure down the semi-open f-file. All black had to do was give up a f-pawn for a strong central pawn. Black is clearly doing better.
  11. 02 Aug '07 22:36
    Game 3875139
    We ARE commenting on a game in progress! Let us stop this madness now! We'll talk about it at length when it's done.
  12. 02 Aug '07 22:51
    Originally posted by pkerpk
    Hey, i'm tryin to figure out if it's really worth to sack my knight for the f-pawn early in the game. I find it works quite well because it is a major weekness... but i'm wondering if it's really worth it to do that.
    Read the TOS, then get out whatever you own for chess books and study a little.
  13. Standard member cadwah
    ¯\_(^.^)_/¯
    03 Aug '07 00:40
    The 'f' pawn is worth very little to me, I sacrifice it as black or white. I play interesting games.
  14. 03 Aug '07 13:41
    I think its important for people to realise that it is not the F-pawn you are sacrificing for! -- its not the pawn you want, but the space behind it. (and also, the prevention of castling)

    for example, lets take this game --

    [Event "rated untimed match"]
    [Site ".........."]
    [Date "????.??.??"]
    [Round "?"]
    [White "White player"]
    [Black "Black player"]
    [Result "*"]
    [WhiteElo "0"]
    [BlackElo "0"]
    [ECO "C40"]
    [TimeControl "0"]

    1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 f6 {by moving f6, Black has exposed his king.} 3. Nxe5 {!
    taking advantage of Blacks 2nd move.} fxe5 {Qe7 Nc4 Qxe4+ Ne3 maybe the
    better line for black.} 4. Qh5+ Ke7 {forced - if 4...g6 then Qxe5+ followed
    by Qxh8} 5. Qxe5+ Kf7 6. Bc4+ d5 {Blacks best defence (see variation)} (6.
    ... Kg6 7. h4 {mate in 5} Qf6 ({d5 is now too late, h5+ will prevent the king
    escaping the mate net.} 7. ... d5 8. h5+ Kf7 9. Bxd5+ Qxd5 10. Qxd5+ ) 8.
    Qe8+ Kh6 9. d4+ g5 10. hxg5+ Kg7 11. gxf6+ Nxf6 12. Qf7# ) 7. Bxd5+ {Giving
    white material compensation for the Knight (3pawns) plus the developmental
    advantage and the exposed Black King its clear that white is winning.} Kg6 8.
    h4 h6 9. h5+ Kh7 10. Bxb7 {winning another pawn -- If Bxb7 Qf5+ g6 Qxg6#} Bd6
    11. Qb5 Na6 12. e5 {threating Qd3+} Nc5 13. Bxa8 Bd7 14. Bc6 a6 15. Qe2 Bxc6
    16. d4 *


    as you can see, all black did wrong was two things, firstly, moving the f-pawn (creating an opening) and secoundly, accepting the Knight sac -- doing these two things allowed white to attack very quickly and with deadly force.
  15. Standard member Dutch Defense
    Stealer of Souls
    03 Aug '07 13:46 / 5 edits
    User 340422 loves their 'f' pawns.