I do consult databases and opening books.

Originally posted by Varenka
So where does this take us? Is it my database versus your database?

This is a drawback of playing CC. Opening lines which are perfectly practical in a 1800 OTB tournament may get refuted by a 1200 rated player blindly using his 4 million game database. That's great for CC results, but poor for OTB practice.

I think CC is not a very good form of OTB practice in any case. They are different forms of chess. It's like running marathons to train for sprints.

There was a local player here that was 2500+ correspondence [in the pre-computer age] and 1800 OTB. And who is to say that the rating difference is explained only by access to books? Maybe some people do much better without a clock ticking and an opponent and spectators staring at them the whole time.

I also think it is very rare for a 1200 to get lucky enough to pluck a refutation out of a database at random. More realisticly, he would have to understand that the move in the database is actually a refutation in order to follow the line all the way to the end [ignoring the other branches that pop up]. At this point, he has probably become a stronger player. 🙂

Originally posted by SwissGambit
I think CC is not a very good form of OTB practice in any case. They are different forms of chess. It's like running marathons to train for sprints.

There was a local player here that was 2500+ correspondence [in the pre-computer age] and 1800 OTB. And who is to say that the rating difference is explained only by access to books? Maybe some people do ...[text shortened]... ng the other branches that pop up]. At this point, he has probably become a stronger player. 🙂

Agreed. Good post SG.

The only thing I would add to what seems pretty well encompassed by you; is that
the organization needed to play CC at a high level, may be one factor which can help
OTB chess. The organization of a good CC player is easily transferred to general study,
which is important in OTB chess.

I think the most transferable aspect of CC play, is this ability to study, and quantify the
value of ones time, and resources; in a way which OTB players may not already have
been accustomed.

EDIT:ADD: Especially those players who juggle a large gameload in CC play.
(But still play strongly in those games...)

-GIN

I disagree.CC has helped improve my OTB play for sure.

1) In CC I also always calculate in my head first,then check on a board (or not if I'm confident my line is correct or if I'm just plain lazy).It improved my calculation skills and enhanced the confidence I have in those skills

2) It helped me organise my thinking by employing Purdy's thinking technique.It's still rather chaotic at times and probably always will be.But it's a lot more structured and better directed than it used to be and I keep improving in this area.
It greatly improved my ability to correctly judge and assess positions

Originally posted by Ajuin
I disagree.CC has helped improve my OTB play for sure.

1) In CC I also always calculate in my head first,then check on a board (or not if I'm confident my line is correct or if I'm just plain lazy).It improved my calculation skills and enhanced the confidence I have in those skills

2) It helped me organise my thinking by employing Purdy's thinking techni ...[text shortened]... oving in this area.
It greatly improved my ability to correctly judge and assess positions

I agree. Playing here the last few months has allowed me to correct some bad habits and work on some weaknesses, and I believe I scored 4.5/5 in a tournament two weeks ago in large part because I translated my work here to the board in the tournament.

In particular, on the site I:

1) Experimented with some opening ideas as a testbed, so I would know what to expect in a tournament;

2) I sometimes intentionally went into endgames, even if it may not have been the objectively best option, so I could practice certain endings and polish my technique;

3) I "pushed" in certain tactical sequences to test my analytical abilities, to find flaws; and

4) In intentionally overused the conditional move feature to make myself more accountable for the results of my initial move, and to force me to really anticipate what my opponent might play. My goal was to dramatically improve my "two move combinations", and I think that was a huge help.

Paul

Is CC better for your OTB chess than doing no work at all? Of course. And I'd back the marathon runner in a sprint versus the couch potato.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Is CC better for your OTB chess than doing no work at all? Of course. And I'd back the marathon runner in a sprint versus the couch potato.

Fair enough.

But can you consider CC an inappropriate supplement of study to OTB chess?


-GIN

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Is CC better for your OTB chess than doing no work at all? Of course. And I'd back the marathon runner in a sprint versus the couch potato.

I'd prefer to go with a cross-training metaphor, with ideas about varying training methods and muscle confusion and stuff like that, as opposed to the "either/or" approach, but I know what you are trying to say!

Originally posted by Nowakowski
Fair enough.

But can you consider CC an inappropriate supplement of study to OTB chess?


-GIN

I'd stick with "inferior" instead of "inappropriate", but yeah.

Originally posted by Paul Leggett
I'd prefer to go with a cross-training metaphor, with ideas about varying training methods and muscle confusion and stuff like that, as opposed to the "either/or" approach, but I know what you are trying to say!

That's a bit more than I know about running - afraid I'm more of a couch potato myself. 😞

Originally posted by Nowakowski
OTB chess?


-GIN

I thought you didn't do any

Originally posted by heinzkat
I thought you didn't do any

Didn't claim to here.
Haven't yet.
Aspire to.



-GIN

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Is CC better for your OTB chess than doing no work at all? Of course. And I'd back the marathon runner in a sprint versus the couch potato.

That assumes we didn't make any effort to improve before taking up CC.
I did recognise some of my shortcomings and tried to improve on them.It was only when I took up CC that I made progress.
It would depend on the shortcomings you have.For instance,if you get into timetrouble a lot CC won't do you much good.

CC and OTB are different forms but they both are chess with the same rules and thus very closely related.To stick with your running metaphor.I used CC to improve OTB like the sprinter sits on his behind lifting weights to run faster.

Originally posted by Ajuin
That assumes we didn't make any effort to improve before taking up CC.
I did recognise some of my shortcomings and tried to improve on them.It was only when I took up CC that I made progress.
It would depend on the shortcomings you have.For instance,if you get into timetrouble a lot CC won't do you much good.

CC and OTB are different forms but they both a ...[text shortened]... r.I used CC to improve OTB like the sprinter sits on his behind lifting weights to run faster.

Yeah, there's the time aspect, and the lack of an analysis board, books and databases. The trick is to glean ideas from those things without being too dependent on them during a game. However, the argument can then be made that such a player isn't merely playing CC, but also doing general chess study.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Yeah, there's the time aspect, and the lack of an analysis board, books and databases. The trick is to glean ideas from those things without being too dependent on them during a game. However, the argument can then be made that such a player isn't merely playing CC, but also doing general chess study.

wich is why I think CC is a very good tool to improve your chess in any aspect

[... the argument can then be made that such a player isn't merely playing CC, but also doing general chess study.[/b]

This is an excellent point, and I think it really rephrases the discussion in a positive way- it is probably more appropriate to think of chess playing improvement as the goal, and as OTB and CC chess as different aspects of playing. General chess study helps both, and general study done for one method may, to a greater OR lesser extent, also help the other.

Paul