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  1. Standard member sydsad
    Poet
    08 Mar '07 08:46
    I think studies of Chess Openings is something for very advanced players. How should a Advanced beginner approach Openings ("in a non-study fashion"?

    1. Always play the same stuff
    2. Try different mainstream openings

    I almost all of my games I have used something remotly similar to "Good Ol' Ruy". It is probably time to try something different but I cannot make up my mind.

    My Opening book as we speak:

    As White: 1 e4
    Asw Black: IF "1 e4" THEN "2 e5" ELSE "Scream"

    Would it be possible to summarized in a resonably oversimplified fashion what kind of positions you would expect from different opening approaches?

    Gimme your best sales pitch, please!
  2. Standard member Dies Irae
    I Love U
    08 Mar '07 09:11
    You're rated 100 points over me, so I don't know what depth of knowledge you are looking for here...

    I learned a bunch of openings by going through the chessmaster database of famous games- you see the pros playing the same things over and over- kings indian defense, ruy lopez, sicilian dragon, queens gambit, english open, and so on....

    I just looked through the games and emulated what I saw. Also, chessmaster had a nice thing where you could play the computer with the opening database open, and it would show you what moves were most popular for what responses. And it also had an opening database which explained the basic concept behind each opening.

    Right now I only have the most elementary understanding of the openings. But my advice would be to pick an opening for white and an opening for black for both e4 and d4 and then learn those. It seems most people have a favored line that they play over and over, and you start to see the same things. Pick an opening, read a book on it and just go with it for now.
  3. Standard member sydsad
    Poet
    08 Mar '07 09:42
    Thank you! Nice input. My RHP rating is a Joke (at least 200pts too high).
  4. 08 Mar '07 10:35
    I think an important part of learning openings is to set up the positions on the board for yourself and play around, "What happens if...?"
  5. 08 Mar '07 11:02
    I agree that opening study is not necessary, it is better to have a own idea behind the move than following aimlessly a "book line" (if your opponent refutes your idea all the better - you learn why it didn't work).

    maybe you've already read these:

    http://www.chesscafe.com/archives/archives.htm#Novice%20Nook

    .. and especially:

    http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman53.pdf

    and

    http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman37.pdf

    however, playing CC is a great way to learn openings as you have time to think for your move. You should first think what to play, then check if the move you thought would be ok in a database (http://www.chessgames.com/perl/explorer is great as it doesn't go that deep but only shows the first 4-8 moves). you can also go through some master games in the variation your game is probably going to take.

    I also think that it is a good idea to stick to the same opening variations for some time (at least a year) before switching to another system.

    so what to do instead of especially studying openings? If I were you I'd just play lots and do tactical puzzles and read a good endgame book (Silman's Complete Endgame Course is excellent).

    Originally posted by sydsad

    Would it be possible to summarized in a resonably oversimplified fashion what kind of positions you would expect from different opening approaches?


    I don't exactly understand what you mean but extremely oversiplified summary might be:

    1. e4 e5

    open game, both players can already get their queens and bishops into action. usually more stuff happening right away but could still get very positional (i.e. closed ruy lopez). white has now several gambits at his disposal to furher his initiative (2.f4 king's gambit etc.).

    1.e4 other

    semi-open game, black is one tempi behind in the opening so it is in his interest not to open the game - it is likely that he will eventually catch white's development but until black is ready it could be risky to follow white's example.

    1. d4

    closed game, usually takes a while before all the pieces are activated. still could be very tactical and sharp right from the opening. there is a myriad of different systems for black/white could play here.

    regards,

    - bahus
  6. Standard member sydsad
    Poet
    08 Mar '07 11:42
    Great Post, Bahus! Much Appreciated!
  7. 08 Mar '07 11:46
    Guess I'll toss in some reference for my advice too then: http://www.chesscafe.com/text/davies26.pdf
  8. 08 Mar '07 13:24
    Originally posted by sydsad
    I think studies of Chess Openings is something for very advanced players. How should a Advanced beginner approach Openings ("in a non-study fashion"?

    1. Always play the same stuff
    2. Try different mainstream openings

    I almost all of my games I have used something remotly similar to "Good Ol' Ruy". It is probably time to try something different but I c ...[text shortened]... uld expect from different opening approaches?

    Gimme your best sales pitch, please!
    You're close to my rating so I will tell you what I do when I reach an unfamiliar position.

    1. Figure out what I would like to play and why.
    2. Look up the line in a book or db.
    3. Compare the two. If I don't understand the book move, I play mine. If the book move makes sense I will probably play it, but I will try and figure out why my move isn't main line.

    By doing this you will quickly memorize 8-10 moves in your primary openings.
  9. 08 Mar '07 15:20
    1.d4 Nf6 c4 g6 Nc3 Bg7

    black is striving for dynamic set-up and, depending on what white will do, either expand on the queenside or on the kingside. Blacks g7 bishop will be the key piece for him.
  10. Donation ketchuplover
    G.O.A.T.
    09 Mar '07 00:01 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sydsad
    I think studies of Chess Openings is something for very advanced players. How should a Advanced beginner approach Openings ("in a non-study fashion"?

    1. Always play the same stuff
    2. Try different mainstream openings

    I almost all of my games I have used something remotly similar to "Good Ol' Ruy". It is probably time to try something different but I c uld expect from different opening approaches?

    Gimme your best sales pitch, please!
    Have you heard of a book titled "Play 1.e4 e5. A Complete Repertoire for Black in the Open Games"?
  11. 09 Mar '07 01:41
    Originally posted by sydsad
    I think studies of Chess Openings is something for very advanced players. How should a Advanced beginner approach Openings ("in a non-study fashion"?

    1. Always play the same stuff
    2. Try different mainstream openings

    I almost all of my games I have used something remotly similar to "Good Ol' Ruy". It is probably time to try something different but I c ...[text shortened]... uld expect from different opening approaches?

    Gimme your best sales pitch, please!
    I've learned a little about openings, and hopefully this will help.

    AS black

    If 1.d4 d5 and the usual reply is c4. Reply with 2. e6, and your done... what I mean is, you can more or less, at least a beginner level, "play it by ear.

    If 1. e4 c5 This definitely requires some study. However, you can try the play it by ear method with development, and you should be OK.

    If 1. c4 e5 and good ol' play it by ear.

    When I say play it by ear, I mean just follow openings principles, development,central control, king safety, etc.

    As white, I prefer 1.d4 If Nf6 then 2. c4 and play it by ear.
    1. d4 d5 2. c4 and if he takes then e3.

    I don't use this and did actually do a little opening study,but if your looking to spend study time elsewhere, I would recommend this. Your rating is 400 points higher than mine, so I don't know if this will be any help...
  12. Standard member sydsad
    Poet
    09 Mar '07 05:52
    Originally posted by ketchuplover
    Have you heard of a book titled "Play 1.e4 e5. A Complete Repertoire for Black in the Open Games"?
    Nope, I will have a look at it. Thank you!
  13. Standard member sydsad
    Poet
    09 Mar '07 05:56 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by chesskid001
    I've learned a little about openings, and hopefully this will help.

    AS black

    If 1.d4 d5 and the usual reply is c4. Reply with 2. e6, and your done... what I mean is, you can more or less, at least a beginner level, "play it by ear.

    If 1. e4 c5 This definitely requires some study. However, you can try the play it by ear method with development, a is. Your rating is 400 points higher than mine, so I don't know if this will be any help...
    Great Post! I think my rating is much higher than my overall chess skills.

    Semi serious Opening studies is not on my agenda right now. I have too much to learn in other areas and far to little experience in "just playing chess". Still, it would be interesting to get some feel for how open the game to have a decent chance to get a position I like.

    I have had a LOT of nice input in this thread. Good work, Folks!
  14. 09 Mar '07 06:02
    know the middlegames for the opening you are playing. know the pawn advances and where good outposts will occur for your pieces so you can get them close to those points.
  15. 09 Mar '07 22:12 / 1 edit
    I recommend playing open games, which is more likely to be resolved tactically than a closed game which might go into a long endgame.

    I recommend getting the initiative, even if it means sacrificing a pawn.

    As White:

    Goring Gambit: 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 (2...Nf6 3 Nc3) 3 d4 ed 4 c3 dc 5 Nc3.
    Halasz Gambit: 1 e4 c5 2 d4 cd 3 f4
    Ulysses' Gambit: 1 e4 c6 2 d4 d5 3 Nf3 de 4 Ng5
    Alapin Gambit: 1 e4 e6 2 d4 d5 3 Be3 de 4 Nd2 and maybe 5 f3.

    (The above openings are analyzed by Eric Schiller in "Gambit Opening Repertoire for White."

    As Black:
    Scandinavian Defense: 1 e4 d5 2 ed Nf6 3 d4 (3 c4 e6 4 de Be6) Bg4 (The Portugese Variation).
    Tarrash Defense: 1 d4 d5 2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 c5 4 cd cd (The Hennig-Schara Gambit)

    (Tha above Black openings are analyzed in Schiler's "Gambit Opening Repertoire for Black."