Judit Polgár and the WWCC

RJHinds

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21 Apr '13 07:19

RJHinds
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21 Apr '13 07:19
Since I have been away from chess for 30 years, I haven't paid too much attention to who were the top players in the world. I was searching out information on the women in chess and came across this little bit of information that I thought was interesting.

Judit Polgár is the number one rated woman chess player and the only woman to have won a game from a current world number one player, and has defeated nine current or former world champions in either rapid or classical chess: Anatoli Karpov, Garry Kasparov, Boris Spassky, Vasily Smyslov, Veselin Topalov, Viswanathan Anand, Ruslan Ponomariov, Alexander Khalifman, and Rustam Kasimdzhanov. However, she has never bothered to compete for the Women's World Chess Championship
SwissGambit
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21 Apr '13 08:221 edit
Originally posted by RJHinds
Since I have been away from chess for 30 years, I haven't paid too much attention to who were the top players in the world. I was searching out information on the women in chess and came across this little bit of information that I thought was interesting.

Judit Polgár is the number one rated woman chess player and the only woman to have won a game from a ...[text shortened]... imdzhanov. However, she has never bothered to compete for the Women's World Chess Championship
Hard to go back to the kids' table once you've got a seat with the big boys.
64squaresofpain
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21 Apr '13 15:211 edit
The questions here should be:

Should men and womens chess be unified? Why must there be seperate tournaments?

Judit Polgar, amongst others, have proven their worth amongst the elite.
vivify
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21 Apr '13 16:10
I think it has to do with the number of women chess players vs. male chess players. I'm not sure of the exact numbers are for each, but I believe men outnumber women by far, in the world of pro chess. So it makes sense to have a separate tournement or league for women, as long as women are also allowed to compete against the men.
RJHinds
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21 Apr '13 19:20
Originally posted by SwissGambit
Hard to go back to the kids' table once you've got a seat with the big boys.
Most people would do it just for the fame, money, and prestige of being a world champion at something.
SwissGambit
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22 Apr '13 01:27
Originally posted by RJHinds
Most people would do it just for the fame, money, and prestige of being a world champion at something.
IMO, she got way more money and prestige from being a world top 10 player. (Think of it this way...is there any other more famous female player in chess history?)

She could not have arrived or stayed at that level if she had wasted a lot of time playing in tournaments of lesser strength.

How many women's world champs can say they beat Garry Kasparov in a game?
RJHinds
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22 Apr '13 02:364 edits
The following game is between two former Women's World Chess Champions. Yifan Hou is the youngest Women's World Chess Champion, gaining the title in 2010 and succesfully defending in 2011, but losing in 2012. She will be the challenger in the 2013 WWCC.

I decided to run it through my new toy Houdini 3 Aquarium to check for mistakes.

[Event "Eurocup"]
[Site "Eilat Israel"]
[Date "2012.10.11"]
[White "Hou, Yifan"]
[Black "Kosteniuk, Alexandra"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B10"]

Invert Board PGN Comments

1. e4 c6 {A comment here says Kosteniuk hopes to surprise her opponent with a Caro-Kann, played the first time of her career in a classical game.} 2. d3 d5 3. Nd2 e5 4. Ngf3 Bd6 5. d4 exd4 6. exd5 Nf6 7. dxc6 Nxc6 8. Be2 O-O 9. Nb3 Re8 10. O-O Bg4 11. h3 Bxf3 12. Bxf3 Be5 {I believe this opening variation ends here with the best continuations being 13.Re1, 13.a3, 13.Bg5, or 13.Nc5} 13. Nc5 Rc8 14. Nd3 Bb8 15. Bg5 h6 16. Bh4 g5 17. Bg3 Bxg3 18. fxg3 Qd6 19. Rf2 Kg7 20. Qd2 Qxg3 21. Raf1 Re7 22. c3 {Houdini 3 considers this an error giving 22.Bxc6 Rxc6 23.Nb4 Rd6 24.Rxf6 Rxf6} 22... Ne5 23. cxd4 Nc4 24. Qb4 Rcc7 25. Rc1 Ne3 26. Rxc7 Rxc7 27. Qd2 Nf5 {Houdini 3 gives 27...Nxg2} 28. Ne5 Nd6 29. Rf1 Qh4 30. Qd3 Qg3 31. Qd2 Nf5 32. Qd3 Nd6 33. Qd2 Nf5 34. Qd3 {I believe a 3-fold repetition draw could have been claimed by Hou here, however, a comment mentions that they were both getting into time trouble.} 34... Qf4 35. Bxb7 Qxd4+ 36. Qxd4 Nxd4 37. Ba6 Rc2 38. Rf2 Rc1+ 39. Rf1 Rc2 40. Rf2 Rc1+ 41. Kh2 h5 42. Rd2 Nf5 43. Rf2 Nd6 44. Bd3 h4 45. Rf1 Rc7 46. g3 Re7 47. Nf3 Re3 48. Ba6 hxg3+ 49. Kxg3 Nf5+ 50. Kh2 g4 51. hxg4 Nxg4+ 52. Kh3 Ne5 53. Bb7 Nd6 54. Ba8 f5 55. Kg3 {Houdini 3 gives 55.Re1} 55... Nd3 56. Kh4 {Houdini 3 considers this a mistake and gives 56.b3} 56... Kf6 57. b3 {Another mistake 57.Rd1 or 57.Bc6 are better} 57... Re8 58. Rd1 {Houdini 3 gives 58.Bd5 as best} 58... Rxa8 59. Rxd3 Ne4 0-1
Rank outsider
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22 Apr '13 20:051 edit
Originally posted by RJHinds
The following game is between two former Women's World Chess Champions. Yifan Hou is the youngest Women's World Chess Champion, gaining the title in 2010 and succesfully defending in 2011, but losing in 2012. She will be the challenger in the 2013 WWCC.

I decided to run it through my new toy Houdini 3 Aquarium to check for mistakes.

[Event "Eurocu 8 58. Rd1 {Houdini 3 gives 58.Bd5 as best} 58... Rxa8 59. Rxd3 Ne4 0-1

[/pgn]
It's good to see you citing your source now.
SwissGambit
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22 Apr '13 21:161 edit
Originally posted by Rank outsider
It's good to see you citing your source now.
Heh, we could get RJ to write testimonials for them.
I feel like a stronger player since I've been using this product. I could not recommend this software more highly.

Do you want to TRANSFORM from rank patzer/fish to a GRAND MASTER BEATER?! Only $50 stands between yourself and your destiny. BUY IT TODAY!!
greenpawn34
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23 Apr '13 12:202 edits
🙂

RJ in another forum'

"I've just ran the theory of evolution through Houdini and found 3 mistakes."

OK Joking aside.

Hi RJ.
That game you posted, here.

You stated "Houdini 3 gives 27...Nxg2" and then left us hanging.

One reason why I never use a box to judge a position and another reason
why I very rarely do GM games.
Not good enough to see everything a GM can see and too human to understand
what a computer a thinks.

You should have elaboroted a bit more.
I can see a forced sequence after 27...Nxg2 but then what's happening?
Does the box show a big plus for Black, is there a trick I've missed?
Is it a must do sac because White has a shot somewhere.

FEN 8/ppr2pk1/5n1p/6p1/3P4/3NnBqP/PP1Q1RP1/6K1 b - - 0 1
Invert Board PGN Headers Comments

[FEN "8/ppr2pk1/5n1p/6p1/3P4/3NnBqP/PP1Q1RP1/6K1 b - - 0 1"]

1... Nxg2 2. Bxg2 {Forced else Qxf3 and 2.Rxg2 Qxf3 3.Rxg5+ - Qxg5+ goes nowhere.} 2... Ne4 {I assume this is the idea.} 3. Qe2 {Only move to hold the Rook and the Knight. So it's looking good as part of combination as we have had two forced moves on the trot.} 3... Nxf2 4. Nxf2 {That's the third.} 4... Rc1+ 5. Nd1 {So four forced moves on the bounce. certainly not beyond any GM and now........ I don't have clue what to do or what is going on. White is pinned up but maiking something of it would be very hard to judge when considering Nxg2. But now here I can see possible ideas.} 5... Qf4 {Threat Qxd4+.} 6. Qd3 Qh4 {Threat Qe1+} 7. Qd2 Ra1 8. d5 {This takes care of Black big threat which is...} 8... Qh5 9. Qc3+ Kg8 10. Qc8+ Kg7 11. Qc3+ {That's a perpetual.} 11... Kg6 12. Bf3 {Now I'm bored and going for traps.12...Qxh3 13.Be4+} 12... Rxd1+ 13. Kg2 {What is happening now? So how did I do? On the button or way off course. What is the computers line after Nxg2. I think we should be told.}
RJHinds
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23 Apr '13 21:21
Originally posted by greenpawn34
🙂

RJ in another forum'

"I've just ran the theory of evolution through Houdini and found 3 mistakes."

OK Joking aside.

Hi RJ.
That game you posted, here.

[fen]8/ppr2pk1/5n1p/6p1/3P4/3NnBqP/PP1Q1RP1/6K1 b - - 0 1[/fen]
You stated "Houdini 3 gives 27...Nxg2" and then left us hanging.

One reason why I never use a box to judge a position ...[text shortened]... ourse. What is the computers line after Nxg2. I think we should be told.}[/pgn]
No, it was not a big plus for Black and I did not bother to see what Houdini 3 would do after that because it was less than a point in favor of Black as I recall.
greenpawn34
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24 Apr '13 11:25
Hi RJ

Already you are displaying all the symptoms of a weak player with a very strong box
and have fallen into the 'what it gives as an evaluation' trap.
What may be a +0.05 evaluation to it may be winning position in human v human
because of the difficulties hidden in the position.

To prove after Nxg2 a 0.05 a human player will have to find OTB perhaps
the next 10-15 exact Houdinin moves. This is beyond the scope of all but a
handful of the top players.

That Nxg2 is a critical game changing move.
The best move according to you and your computer.
At least let us see why?

If you are going to start polluting this forum with moves from your new toy
gives us reasons and human evaluations, try and make it interesting and
none of of this +1.75 crap.

Chess players are inquisitive, we will ask questions and we don't want fobbed
off with "the computer says 1+65." we won't know what you are talking about.
RJHinds
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24 Apr '13 14:50
Originally posted by greenpawn34
Hi RJ

Already you are displaying all the symptoms of a weak player with a very strong box
and have fallen into the 'what it gives as an evaluation' trap.
What may be a +0.05 evaluation to it may be winning position in human v human
because of the difficulties hidden in the position.

To prove after Nxg2 a 0.05 a human player will have to find OTB ...[text shortened]... want fobbed
off with "the computer says 1+65." we won't know what you are talking about.
Let me just say that the commentator on the game wrote that the Nxg2 move was better, but that is all. Now does that make you happy?
kbear1k
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24 Apr '13 15:05
Evaluations by computers can be meaningless in many positions. A .35+ evaluation in many instances is not enough to win a game and could be a forced draw. As you know it depends on the position and what phase of the game the calculation is taking place. In my caase it also depends on do I like playing the "type" of position. For instance I love open games and endgames - esp. OTB endgames. I hate close positions.
greenpawn34
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24 Apr '13 17:44
"...the commentator on the game wrote that the Nxg2 move was better.."

RJ the commentator was a machine. (you posted Houdini gave Nxg2 as better)
Already you have it with a personality by calling IT the commentator,
it's taking over your life. You will be talking to it next.
Switch it off now.

No...wait....show me what line it has after Nxg2.
It may have stumbled on a remarkable Zuggers.
My cheapo lines nearly work because White has everything in the right place.
If the White Queen can be zooged out of position one of these trick shots may be on.

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Judit Polgár and the WWCC