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kasparov blunder?

kasparov blunder?

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b

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Can someone with a good database check Kasparov's 14th move as black against Karpov at the Reykjavik Rapide 2004? to me it looks like he just gave a knight away for nothing (14...Ne5) am i missing something? has the move been relayed incorrectly? I've checked the score in several places and it seems correct. Hard to believe Kasparov would blunder that badly, even in a blitz game, and also that Karpov would fail to see it. What's going on?

A
Lazy Sod

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Post us a link please?

b

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You can look it up here. Just type in players and date.
http://www.chesslab.com/PositionSearch.html

Siskin

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Yes, he's losing his knight - probably meant to play Bxf3 first, then Ne5, and played the moves in the wrong order. Don't understand why Karpov didn't take it ... possibly didn't even consider that Kasparov would leave a piece en prise.

S

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Kasparov did a huge blunder in Deep Blue match, in the opening too, that anyone above a 1600 rating pretty much saw. My guess is it was the end of the matches, he was tired and frustrated, the machine, of course, wasn't. Kasparov, of course, somewhat made a game out of it despite the blunder, but quit, figuring it was futile to defend the inevitable for 40 plus moves, which of course he was criticized for doing. This is why machines beat us humans, they don't get tired or emotional. I wish I could remember what the game was, it was shown on one of my chess vedios I used to have, Kasparov played a very bad black Caro-Kann if I remember.

Siskin

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Here's the Karpov-Kasparov game

1. d4 Nf6
2. Nf3 d5
3. c4 e6
4. Nc3 c6
5. e3 Nbd7
6. Bd3 dxc4
7. Bxc4 b5
8. Bd3 Bb7
9. O-O a6
10. a3 c5
11. dxc5 Bxc5
12. b4 Be7
13. Bb2 O-O
14. Qe2 Ne5
15. Rfd1 Bxf3
16. gxf3 Nxd3
17. Rxd3 Qc7
18. Rad1 Rfd8
19. Ne4 Nxe4
20. fxe4 Rxd3
21. Rxd3 Rd8
22. Rxd8+ Qxd8
23. Qc2 Qd7
24. Bd4 h5
25. f3 Bd6
26. Kg2 Qc7
27. Qxc7 Bxc7
28. f4 g6
29. Bf6 Kf8
30. Kf3 Ke8
31. e5 a5
32. Bh4 Kd7
33. Be1 a4
34. Bh4 Bb6
35. h3

S

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Originally posted by Siskin
Yes, he's losing his knight - probably meant to play Bxf3 first, then Ne5, and played the moves in the wrong order. Don't understand why Karpov didn't take it ... possibly didn't even consider that Kasparov would leave a piece en prise.
Yes, that's a huge advantage of being such a good player, when you hang/blunder a peice, players often think you have some wild sacrefice planned and are afraid to take it. A lot of GM's warn the average player like myself about this, saying that when we play masters, if you think they did a mistake, take the peice, everyone makes mistakes, including masters, IM's. GM's, etc. and if you don't trust your ability to see a mistake, then don't expect to become a master any time soon.

RHP is like wise, I find Ironman often offers draws in games he should probably lose and opponents accept/oblige.

K

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Originally posted by Steelman31
Kasparov did a huge blunder in Deep Blue match, in the opening too, that anyone above a 1600 rating pretty much saw. My guess is it was the end of the matches, he was tired and frustrated, the machine, of course, wasn't. Kasparov, of course, somewhat made a game out of it despite the blunder, but quit, figuring it was futile to defend the inevitable for ...[text shortened]... one of my chess vedios I used to have, Kasparov played a very bad black Caro-Kann if I remember.
Kasparov has leater told that he played the "blunder" on purpuse because he wanted to see if the computer would sacrifice the pice nessesary to punish the mistake.

Besides if there is a clear-cut blunder in his game agains Karpov, which Karpov didn't take advantage of, then there is a wery high possibility that the game is wrong annotated. Either that or it isn't a mistake, and you must find the analysis to understand....

h

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Originally posted by Steelman31
Yes, that's a huge advantage of being such a good player, when you hang/blunder a peice, players often think you have some wild sacrefice planned and are afraid to take it. A lot of GM's warn the average player like myself about this, saying that when we play masters, if you think they did a mistake, take the peice, everyone makes mistakes, including ma ...[text shortened]... I find Ironman often offers draws in games he should probably lose and opponents accept/oblige.
I think Karpov just missed it somehow since it was a rapid game...I do not believe he would fear taking the free knight if he saw it.

O

An airport near you

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Originally posted by buddy2
Can someone with a good database check Kasparov's 14th move as black against Karpov at the Reykjavik Rapide 2004? to me it looks like he just gave a knight away for nothing (14...Ne5) am i missing something? has the move been relayed incorr ...[text shortened]... ame, and also that Karpov would fail to see it. What's going on?
A huge amount of the games from that tournament were mis-scored due to whatever technology they were using (think I recall a Stefansson - Karpov game from the same tournament which had an equally stupid blunder that still exists in some databases).

14...Bxf3 15.gxf Ne5 is the actual game.

S

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Originally posted by Osse
A huge amount of the games from that tournament were mis-scored due to whatever technology they were using (think I recall a Stefansson - Karpov game from the same tournament which had an equally stupid blunder that still exists in some databases).

14...Bxf3 15.gxf Ne5 is the actual game.
Well, I guess that clears it up, because I too was surprised that Karpov would not trust himself, even against Kasparov, to take a free knight. I doubt this annotation ever happened.

B
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Originally posted by buddy2
Can someone with a good database check Kasparov's 14th move as black against Karpov at the Reykjavik Rapide 2004? to me it looks like he just gave a knight away for nothing (14...Ne5) am i missing something? has the move been relayed incorrectly? I've checked the score in several places and it seems correct. Hard to believe Kasparov would blunder that badly, even in a blitz game, and also that Karpov would fail to see it. What's going on?
Kasparov was setting up a Bish sacrifice on his next move.

b

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How did you get that correction, Osse? I checked three databases and thay all have the 14...ne5 mistake as part of the score.

O

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Originally posted by buddy2
How did you get that correction, Osse? I checked three databases and thay all have the 14...ne5 mistake as part of the score.
I remember watching the games. I don't have access to my main database at present (Bigbase 2004) so don't know whether it is included in that. However I have found this quote from a Chessbase article about the games in Reykjavik, concerning the Stefansson game:
"According to an e-mail from GM Emil Sutovsky it is explained simply by incorrect transmission and recording of the moves in many cases, likely including this game. Our apologies to the players if that is the case. When we get the correct scores we'll post corrections"
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=1536

b

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Thanks for info Osse. The way it stands, it certainly makes Karpov and Kasparov look like idiots. Some have explained that it was a typical error in a blitz game. I don't think so. Players of that caliber just don't make double stupid mistakes. At least not very often. I'm leaning toward an error in transmission as a more likely explanation. When I first played over the game, I was stumped, and looked for some kind of tactical justification, but there's none there. I let fritz have a look at it, and "he" couldn't see anything either.

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