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  1. 18 Dec '05 15:21 / 2 edits
    I've recently taken to playing the king's indian defence and i quite like it but am confused as to the best way to proceed when white doesn't play the standard like. Particularly in the case,

    1. d4 Nf6 2. Nc3



    Is it good to continue with ... g6, in theme of the king's indian or to play ... d5 and transpose into a "normal" opening?

    Any thoughts welcome.
  2. Standard member ark13
    Enola Straight
    18 Dec '05 15:34
    Originally posted by nickhawker
    I've recently taken to playing the king's indian defence and i quite like it but am confused as to the best way to proceed when white doesn't play the standard like. Particularly in the case,

    1. d4 Nf6 2. Nc3

    [fen]rnbkqb1r/pppppppp/5n2/8/3P4/2N5/PPP1PPPP/R1BQKBNR b KQkq - 1 2[/fen]

    Is it good to continue with ... g6, in theme of the king's indian or to play ... d5 and transpose into a "normal" opening?

    Any thoughts welcome.
    It of course depends on your preferences. You'll have a favorable queen's pawn opening if you play d5 since white can't play c4, the queen's gambit. But if you're not into that kind of game, you can play g6 and go ahead with your plans. However, your game will probably end in a pirc defense structure, and your opponent will be able to attack your kingside. If you don't mind defending, this is the way to go.

    Personally, I'd advise the former (d5).
  3. 18 Dec '05 15:43
    both ...d5 and ...g6 are totally playable. and in this case, you could play pretty much anything as white probably isnt a very good player. (2.Nc3 looks odd)
  4. 18 Dec '05 15:52
    Originally posted by ark13
    It of course depends on your preferences. You'll have a favorable queen's pawn opening if you play d5 since white can't play c4, the queen's gambit. But if you're not into that kind of game, you can play g6 and go ahead with your plans. However, your game will probably end in a pirc defense structure, and your opponent will be able to attack your kings ...[text shortened]... If you don't mind defending, this is the way to go.

    Personally, I'd advise the former (d5).
    What is the main line of the pirc? I've heard the name but never seen it.
    ...d5 sounds fine to me also but i find that playing this type of defence i often end up waiting around for white to decide what way the game is going. That's why i switched to king's indian, so i would be dictating the direction of the game and not white.

    What do you think to playing ...e4 and playing a nimzo-indian style thing, pinning the knight, a fesable plan or not?

    Jusuh, that is all very well but i'm also not very good.
  5. 18 Dec '05 16:08
    Originally posted by nickhawker
    I've recently taken to playing the king's indian defence and i quite like it but am confused as to the best way to proceed when white doesn't play the standard like. Particularly in the case,

    1. d4 Nf6 2. Nc3

    [fen]rnbkqb1r/pppppppp/5n2/8/3P4/2N5/PPP1PPPP/R1BQKBNR b KQkq - 1 2[/fen]

    Is it good to continue with ... g6, in theme of the king's indian or to play ... d5 and transpose into a "normal" opening?

    Any thoughts welcome.
    Maybe if black's king and queen were in the right place...
  6. 18 Dec '05 16:18
    Originally posted by Bad wolf
    Maybe if black's king and queen were in the right place...
    Oh yer...

    To be fair i had only discover what a fen number was 2 minutes before i posted that, i'll fix it.
  7. 18 Dec '05 16:25
    Originally posted by nickhawker
    Oh yer...

    To be fair i had only discover what a fen number was 2 minutes before i posted that, i'll fix it.
    To answer your question: playing d5 would seem to be a good idea because white's Knight blocks the advance of the c pawn to c4, meaning white cannot play the queen's gambit. But ultimately it is your choice; you could easily play g6 (it certainly is playable), you could also try e6. I would prefer d5.
  8. 18 Dec '05 20:39
    Originally posted by nickhawker
    I've recently taken to playing the king's indian defence and i quite like it but am confused as to the best way to proceed when white doesn't play the standard like. Particularly in the case,

    1. d4 Nf6 2. Nc3

    [fen]rnbqkb1r/pppppppp/5n2/8/3P4/2N5/PPP1PPPP/R1BQKBNR b KQkq - 1 2[/fen]

    Is it good to continue with ... g6, in theme of the king's indian or to play ... d5 and transpose into a "normal" opening?

    Any thoughts welcome.
    When White plays 1. d4 ... Black can somewhat blindly play 1. .... Nf6, 2. .... g6, 3. .... Bg7, and 4. .... 0-0.
  9. 10 Jan '06 07:08
    Originally posted by nickhawker
    I've recently taken to playing the king's indian defence and i quite like it but am confused as to the best way to proceed when white doesn't play the standard like. Particularly in the case,

    1. d4 Nf6 2. Nc3

    [fen]rnbqkb1r/pppppppp/5n2/8/3P4/2N5/PPP1PPPP/R1BQKBNR b KQkq - 1 2[/fen]

    Is it good to continue with ... g6, in theme of the king's indian or to play ... d5 and transpose into a "normal" opening?

    Any thoughts welcome.
    2...g6, which will probably lead to a Pirc, & 2...d5 are acceptable but my preference is 2...e6 idea 3.e4 d5 & a French Defense.
  10. 10 Jan '06 07:56
    Although it is a matter of preference, d5 i think is objectively the best move because you get queen's pawn opening and immediate equality. Although I don't see why you would transpose to a main line french or pirc where white has an opening advantage. After ...g6 then 3.e4 Bg7 4. f4! and now white has the austrian attack considered very good for white. if ...e6 then 3.e4 d5 4. e5! and black goes into the classical french line and avoids the winawer which is black's best theoretical shot in the french. If you are very comfortable with the french or pirc, go for it, but i think it better to simply play 2... d5 and then play ...g6 and ...Bg7 and you avoid the critcal lines of the pirc. or 2... d5 and then ...e6 again avoids critical lines in the french, either way you basically play a french or pirc except that white will be forced to play e3 instead of e4. much better in my opinion.
  11. Standard member buffalobill
    Major Bone
    10 Jan '06 10:43
    Originally posted by nickhawker
    What is the main line of the pirc? I've heard the name but never seen it.
    ...d5 sounds fine to me also but i find that playing this type of defence i often end up waiting around for white to decide what way the game is going. That's why i switched to king's indian, so i would be dictating the direction of the game and not white.

    What do you think to ...[text shortened]... e knight, a fesable plan or not?

    Jusuh, that is all very well but i'm also not very good.
    I'd continue with the fianchetto and invite white to play e4. More on the Pirc here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirc_Defence
    Take the time to look up the Modern/Robatsch Opening on this site which is very similar, except that Black delays development of the knight.
  12. 10 Jan '06 14:20
    Just a tidbit, the fianchetto is more of a modern defense. The pirc leaves the knight on g8 longer in order prevent white from dropping a bishop on h6 (supported by the queen).

    All the options given are playable. The modern is a very solid defense, I play a classical french (many people seem to have lines against the winawer and nothing against the classical line) and can personally tell you that is playable. ..d5 leads to what my buddies always called a vanilla game (thats what they called all symetric pawn structures) .

    In reality though, with that move order, half the time my opponents have avoided e4 and played a variant of the trompowski attack (Bg5). so playing for the fianchetto can spare you some hassle.
  13. Standard member buffalobill
    Major Bone
    10 Jan '06 14:31
    Originally posted by zebano
    Just a tidbit, the fianchetto is more of a modern defense. The pirc leaves the knight on g8 longer in order prevent white from dropping a bishop on h6 (supported by the queen).

    Correct me if I'm wrong but the Modern or Robatsch defence delays the development of the knight while the Pirc develops it?
  14. 10 Jan '06 14:42
    Originally posted by buffalobill
    Correct me if I'm wrong but the Modern or Robatsch defence delays the development of the knight while the Pirc develops it?
    yeah. main line Pirc goes 1.e4 d6 2. d4 Nf6 etc...