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  1. 15 Apr '13 12:04 / 8 edits
    I've been experimenting with sacrificing my knight on g6 in the petroff, my computer plays the petroff all the time so I've been trying to find something against it. And at last have cracked it. Here are 2 variations;

    e4chris vs saitek master 5s per move ps2 (fairly easy)



    e4chris vs saitek master 10s per move ps0 (moderate)

    (mate in 5)

    The finishes in both games (quite nice they are too ) - from about move 20 onwards is the computer playing itself at 3mins per move whilst I watched tv! I thought they were won but i needed the computer to show me how.

    Maybe thats cheating but I've worked on the line up to move 20 and it looks like a forced win from there. - Posistion over material chess 🙂

    What do you think, have you seen this before? If anyone has a strong chess engine would be nice to know what it thinks...
  2. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    16 Apr '13 22:33 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by e4chris
    I've been experimenting with sacrificing my knight on g6 in the petroff, my computer plays the petroff all the time so I've been trying to find something against it. And at last have cracked it. Here are 2 variations;

    e4chris vs saitek master 5s per move ps2 (fairly easy)

    [pgn]1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Bc4 Nxe4 4.Nc3 Nxc3 5.dxc3 Be7 6.Nxe5 O-O 7.h4 d6 8.Ng6 seen this before? If anyone has a strong chess engine would be nice to know what it thinks...
    I just bought Houdini 3 Aquarium and I run the first game through it and the following may be of interest to you.


  3. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    17 Apr '13 03:42
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    I just bought Houdini 3 Aquarium and I run the first game through it and the following may be of interest to you.


    [pgn]
    1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Bc4 Nxe4 4.Nc3 Nxc3 5.dxc3 Be7 {Houdini 3 gives 5...f6} 6.Nxe5 O-O 7.h4 d6 8.Ng6 {Houdini 3 considers this a blunder giving white a -2.38 score} hxg6 9.h5 Bf5 10.Be3 Bg5 11.hxg6 Bxg6 12.Qg4 Re8 13.O-O-O Re5 {Houdin ...[text shortened]... {Houdini 3 finds a forced mate in 11 for white here} 30.Qe8+ Kd6 31.Re2 Qd8 32.Qxd8+ 1-0
    [/pgn]
    5 ... f6? have you got it plugged in?
  4. 17 Apr '13 04:36 / 2 edits
    Thanks - looks like houdini see's a few forced lines to - I noticed with this line the saitek does nothing but defend (as opposed to wiping me off the board) so there must be something there - the checkmate attack is promising - re f6 the saitek does that too, not f6 but it plays the petrov then refuses to castle, if i don't take the e5 pawn and play qd3 instead, it keeps its king in the centre.

    I missed 15 qxe4 too thats an interesting move. (I wonder if houdini thinks it winning or just breaking even though)
  5. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    17 Apr '13 07:05
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    5 ... f6? have you got it plugged in?
    I guess it is trying to hold on to the pawn advantage at all costs.
  6. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    17 Apr '13 07:14 / 4 edits
    Originally posted by e4chris
    Thanks - looks like houdini see's a few forced lines to - I noticed with this line the saitek does nothing but defend (as opposed to wiping me off the board) so there must be something there - the checkmate attack is promising - re f6 the saitek does that too, not f6 but it plays the petrov then refuses to castle, if i don't take the e5 pawn and play qd3 in ...[text shortened]... hats an interesting move. (I wonder if houdini thinks it winning or just breaking even though)
    15.Qxe4 is a surprise to me too. It gives White a negative score, but much less negative than 15.Rh8+. After 15...Bxe4 16.Rxg5 Black is ahead in material by 4, but Houdini 3 gives an evaluation score of -0.81 for White. Then after 16...Qf6 17.Rgh5 the score for White is -0.56. So this means Houdini 3 thinks the position almost compensates White for the lack of material.
  7. 17 Apr '13 12:12
    "5 ... f6? have you got it plugged in?" (A valid question)

    Answered with....

    "I guess it is trying to hold on to the pawn advantage at all costs." 😕


    This is actually the Boden - Kieseritsky Gambit and 5...f6 is theory.
    Not to hold onto the pawn "....at all costs" but to stay on the board.
    Other plausible moves fail.

    5...d6 6.Nxe5
    5...e4 6.Ng4

    Of course RJ your new electric toy won't tell you that.

    Blanca User 222465 could have. He has quite a few short sharp wins
    from this position.

    Fat Lady too has a few games from this position.
    One crisp win and one tough loss where FL met a player who knew
    how to play against the Bee-Kay gambit (chess club slang).

    Fat Lady - SeinfeldFan91 RHP 2007



    Fat Lady - cambridgeian RHP 2007



    Note these game come from the Bishop's Opening.
    Another common way of getting this position is from the Vienna:

  8. 17 Apr '13 12:25 / 1 edit
    I love the B-K gambit but hardly ever get to play it in OTB games because so few of my opponents meet 1.e4 with 1. ... e5 (1. ... e5 is commonly played by beginners and grandmasters, but rarely by those 95% of us inbetween!).

    5. ... d6 is a bad blunder and rather than 6. Nxe5 (as recommended by Greenpawn above), I play the following line which has cropped up with these exact same moves no less than six times in my playchess.com blitz games in the last few years!


    As for the cambridgeian game... well he's lucky he found 27. ... O-O!
  9. 17 Apr '13 21:50
    Hi Fat Lady.

    I half agree with you on 1.e4 e5 though a lot of the middle men are sneaking in
    1...e5 looking to set up a Berlin Wall. (or as in my case a Latvian!).
    Of course they are coming unstuck when they face a Scotch, Vienna or 2.Bc4
    and thanks to Carlsen's exploits a lot of them have wasted precious hours booking
    up on a never to be seen Ponziani.

    So they switch back to their Sicilians and then squeal like stuck pigs because
    nobody plays 3.d4 against them anymore. 🙂

    As always I go along with anyone who has had the position infront of them
    and played a line that gives them a good game.
    Even if it is not the top theorectical choice, if they have had it OTB and like it
    then that is good enough for me.

    6.Ng5 v Nxe5 is possibly 6 and two 3's.
    I like 6.Nxe5 as it opens the e-file and there is still a chance to sac a piece.



    Speaking of coming unstuck v 2.Bc4.
    I was Black over at Gameknot in a 5 min game.
    I've re-done the game from memory but I am sure I have it 99% correct.
    The lad challenged me to instant re-match so I never saved it.

    The Gameknot Trap.
    I like playing on Gameknot, I just play blitz there. It's unrated good for a laugh pure fun.
    I don't know if they have forums and I've not bothered with any long games.
    At least I get a game, sometimes on here when I pick up a challenge my opponent
    just boots me off (scared?.....what for it's only a piece of fun.)

  10. 18 Apr '13 01:50 / 2 edits
    I like your nxe5 game - will try that - in the line i posted 10 Be3 seems to be the crucial move - without it the computer had tactics moving the rook to e8, but with it i can keep my attack going - its funny the computer when i made it take over at move 20 ish thought the posistion was hopelessly lost - 6 points down or so. but every move the score improved until it found a forced mate.
  11. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    18 Apr '13 17:43
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    "5 ... f6? have you got it plugged in?" (A valid question)

    Answered with....

    "I guess it is trying to hold on to the pawn advantage at all costs." 😕

    [fen]rnbqkb1r/pppp1ppp/8/4p3/2B5/2P2N2/PPP2PPP/R1BQK2R b KQkq - 0 5[/fen]
    This is actually the [b]Boden - Kieseritsky Gambit
    and 5...f6 is theory.
    Not to hold onto the pawn "....at all costs" ...[text shortened]... hat line.} 4. Nf3 Nxc3 5. dxc3[/pgn][/b]
    There are other ways of staying on the board without holding on to the pawn. For example Black could have gambited the pawn with 5...c6 7.Nxe5 d5 etc.
  12. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    18 Apr '13 21:19
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    "5 ... f6? have you got it plugged in?" (A valid question)

    Thanks for that lesson GP!!
    😳
    f3 looked so wrong at first glance.

    Those tricky tactics are why I never play 1. e4 e5
  13. 23 Apr '13 00:04 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    I just bought Houdini 3 Aquarium and I run the first game through it and the following may be of interest to you.


    [pgn]
    1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Bc4 Nxe4 4.Nc3 Nxc3 5.dxc3 Be7 {Houdini 3 gives 5...f6} 6.Nxe5 O-O 7.h4 d6 8.Ng6 {Houdini 3 considers this a blunder giving white a -2.38 score} hxg6 9.h5 Bf5 10.Be3 Bg5 11.hxg6 Bxg6 12.Qg4 Re8 13.O-O-O Re5 {Houdin ...[text shortened]... {Houdini 3 finds a forced mate in 11 for white here} 30.Qe8+ Kd6 31.Re2 Qd8 32.Qxd8+ 1-0
    [/pgn]
    I put the computer up a level - 2 min per move and it changes to 13 ...Re4 rather than Re5.

    And after this it is tougher to beat, you can plan 14 Qh3 and the tactics stop the bishop on c4 being lost, but i can't find a win yet.
  14. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    23 Apr '13 09:33
    Originally posted by e4chris
    I put the computer up a level - 2 min per move and it changes to 13 ...Re4 rather than Re5.

    And after this it is tougher to beat, you can plan 14 Qh3 and the tactics stop the bishop on c4 being lost, but i can't find a win yet.
    You had it playing too fast. It did not have enough time to find the best move. It is maybe okay for blitz chess. But I believe some chess programs can find the best move faster than others. It may not think on the opponents time. I believe the early computers did not have that feature. The problem with houdini 3 is that you have to play it on a computer monitor screen diagram and not a real board like some of the older computer chess programs like Chess Challenger.
  15. 24 Apr '13 01:23 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    You had it playing too fast. It did not have enough time to find the best move. It is maybe okay for blitz chess. But I believe some chess programs can find the best move faster than others. It may not think on the opponents time. I believe the early computers did not have that feature. The problem with houdini 3 is that you have to play it on a compute ...[text shortened]... agram and not a real board like some of the older computer chess programs like Chess Challenger.
    Mine has a setting to make it think in the opponents time - its turned off when you switch it on but it can be adjusted and seems to produce better play. But i notice the saitek sticks to similar moves even as i go up the levels - it usually takes it about 30 seconds to come up with a deviation from the main line, i had the chess challenger too! this one has more opening books and sharper play - it plays very good sacrifice sequences - noteworthy - but they are never 'posistional' if I accept it always wins the material back.

    Its a bit of a work of patience though analysing an opening with it. houdini would be better. I believe the 2d / 3d argument that if I practice to much on a 2d board my play on a 3d / club one detioriates, happens for me.