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  1. 21 Jan '07 12:57
    A chess player once showed ma a mate in [about] 12 moves. Might have been just 11, or it might have been as high as 14.

    At any rate, the amazing thing was that it really occurred during a game and every single move was FORCED. The master (or grand-master) actually saw the whole thing in his head and his opponent could do nothing to stop it.

    Well I've tried and tried to find this game on the internet but no such luck. Can anyone help me out by identifying this game? Thanks if you can.
  2. 21 Jan '07 15:14 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by holzpusher
    A chess player once showed ma a mate in [about] 12 moves. Might have been just 11, or it might have been as high as 14.

    At any rate, the amazing thing was that it really occurred during a game and every single move was FORCED. The master (or grand-master) actually saw the whole thing in his head and his opponent could do nothing to stop it.

    Well internet but no such luck. Can anyone help me out by identifying this game? Thanks if you can.
    You will need to be more specific. There will be thousands of games like that.

    EDIT: A forced made in 14 is nothing unusual. Infact, would be quite common, like a P+K vs K ending.
  3. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    21 Jan '07 15:23
    Originally posted by lausey
    EDIT: A forced made in 14 is nothing unusual. Infact, would be quite common, like a P+K vs K ending.
    or a KNB ending, which will make the mates around 30 moves deep.
  4. 21 Jan '07 15:38
    Originally posted by wormwood
    or a KNB ending, which will make the mates around 30 moves deep.
    Yes, agreed, but was thinking of a more common ending.

    It does illustrate the point that long forced mates are very frequent though.
  5. 21 Jan '07 16:52
    There is an cool WIN in 12 that was constructed by Waitzkin and Pandolfini for the movie Searching for Bobby Fischer. The position never arose in the actual game between the two prodigies.

    Speaking of such, does anyone know that kid's name that was Josh's rival? I heard he never pursued chess out of his scholastic years.
    Just wondering
  6. Subscriber BigDoggProblem
    The Advanced Mind
    21 Jan '07 17:10 / 1 edit
    Sam Loyd

    White to move and mate in 12
  7. 21 Jan '07 17:11
    In the movie his opponent's name was Johnathan Poe, although in real life his name was Jeff Sarwer. Also, the position depicted in the movie never arose in a real game. Furthermore, I believe the position is flawed. Poe could have gotten a draw. The win for Josh relied on Poe to make a blunder.
  8. 21 Jan '07 17:22
    Yes, it was an interesting construct. And the fact that a draw was there added to the theatrical value of the moment. Josh offered him one, remember? ;-)
  9. 21 Jan '07 17:52
    Originally posted by lausey
    You will need to be more specific. There will be thousands of games like that.

    EDIT: A forced made in 14 is nothing unusual. Infact, would be quite common, like a P+K vs K ending.
    OK, I will try to be more specific. The game was definitely not near an endgame, it was firmly in the middle-game. There were still many pieces on the board, so I still believe the forced mate was unusual, if only because most players would not be analyzing to find a mate in 12 during the middle of the game.

    Another distinctive thing about the mate is that, despite the multitude of pieces on the board, the forced moves begin on one part of the board and travel all across it to the other side.

    If there are many games that fit the criteria I just gave, could someone send me one please? Remember this is not a puzzle, it was a real life game. Thanks for any help.
  10. Standard member Yuga
    Renaissance
    21 Jan '07 18:23 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by holzpusher
    There were still many pieces on the board, so I still believe the forced mate was unusual, if only because most players would not be analyzing to find a mate in 12 during the middle of the game. Another distinctive thing about the mate is that, despite the multitude of pieces on the board, the forced moves begin on one part of the board and travel all across it to the other side.
    Do you know how famous the game was that you were referring to? Did the game involve a King walk? Piece sacrifices? I doubt that they are any of these.

    Louis Paulsen vs Paul Morphy (leads to a forced mate!? in 10 or moves?! I believe!?) ...23 Be4+ 24 Kf1 Bf5 25 Qe2 Bh3+ 26 Ke1 Rg1++ )
    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1242884

    Wilhelm Steinitz vs Curt von Bardeleben "mate in eleven moves which can only be averted by ruinous loss of material"
    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1132699

    Mikhail Botvinnik vs Jose Raul Capablanca (12 move combination, leads to a mate in a few moves)
    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1031957

    Ljubomir Ftacnik vs Ognjen Cvitan (Forced mate in 5 after 23.bxc7 involving B+Q sac)
    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1046655
  11. 21 Jan '07 18:48
    Originally posted by Yuga
    Do you know how famous the game was that you were referring to? Did the game involve a King walk? Piece sacrifices? I doubt that they are any of these.
    Thanks Yuga, those are not the games, but they are beautiful nonetheless. At least I'm getting closer!

    I'm not sure how famous the game was, but I don't think it involved any of the biggest names. I could be wrong.

    I'm not sure what you mean by a "king walk", but I suppose it must have been that, because all the checks lead the action all across the board as I said, so obviously it must have been the king moving as he experiences multiple checks.

    Thanks again for the suggested games.
  12. Standard member Yuga
    Renaissance
    21 Jan '07 18:58 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by holzpusher
    I'm not sure what you mean by a "king walk", but I suppose it must have been that, because all the checks lead the action all across the board as I said, so obviously it must have been the king moving as he experiences multiple checks.
    King walk: King takes a stroll across the board:

    Carl Hamppe vs Philipp Meitner
    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1250160

    Nigel Short vs Jan Timman
    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1124533

    Edit: (Here is a nice King walk collection.)
    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chesscollection?cid=1001225
  13. Subscriber BigDoggProblem
    The Advanced Mind
    21 Jan '07 20:15
    Originally posted by holzpusher
    OK, I will try to be more specific. The game was definitely not near an endgame, it was firmly in the middle-game. There were still many pieces on the board, so I still believe the forced mate was unusual, if only because most players would not be analyzing to find a mate in 12 during the middle of the game.

    Another distinctive thing about the mate i ...[text shortened]... nd me one please? Remember this is not a puzzle, it was a real life game. Thanks for any help.
    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1259009
  14. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Gonzalo de Córdoba
    21 Jan '07 22:23
    Originally posted by holzpusher
    A chess player once showed ma a mate in [about] 12 moves. Might have been just 11, or it might have been as high as 14.

    At any rate, the amazing thing was that it really occurred during a game and every single move was FORCED. The master (or grand-master) actually saw the whole thing in his head and his opponent could do nothing to stop it.

    Well ...[text shortened]... internet but no such luck. Can anyone help me out by identifying this game? Thanks if you can.
    Rapist!
  15. 22 Jan '07 06:47 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by holzpusher
    A chess player once showed ma a mate in [about] 12 moves. Might have been just 11, or it might have been as high as 14.

    At any rate, the amazing thing was that it really occurred during a game and every single move was FORCED. The master (or grand-master) actually saw the whole thing in his head and his opponent could do nothing to stop it.

    Well internet but no such luck. Can anyone help me out by identifying this game? Thanks if you can.
    perhaps this was the one? if not, it is still a beautiful game in my opinion

    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1259009