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  1. 12 Apr '07 19:08 / 1 edit
    So, I'm playing through the Black side of this; trying to familiarize myself with it. Man this is terrible for Black. Any ideas? Qa5 looked about the best as the first move out of book. But, it appears that barring some novelty, Black is playing uphill the whole time. Any suggestions would be most welcome.
  2. Standard member Dragon Fire
    Lord of all beasts
    12 Apr '07 19:24
    Originally posted by AlphaAlekhine
    So, I'm playing through the Black side of this; trying to familiarize myself with it. Man this is terrible for Black. Any ideas? Qa5 looked about the best as the first move out of book. But, it appears that barring some novelty, Black is playing uphill the whole time. Any suggestions would be most welcome.
    What is the line leading to Qa5?
  3. 12 Apr '07 19:36
    I don't have the line here in front of me. It's the main line, I suppose. Sorry, I should have come more prepared. I'm at work and don't have time to try to recall all the moves. On move 13, I beleive, the book line ends.
  4. 12 Apr '07 19:52
    Originally posted by AlphaAlekhine
    I don't have the line here in front of me. It's the main line, I suppose. Sorry, I should have come more prepared. I'm at work and don't have time to try to recall all the moves. On move 13, I beleive, the book line ends.
    Do you have a game here that we could look at? Books end lines in different places depending on how through the authors are...
  5. Standard member Kepler
    Demon Duck
    12 Apr '07 19:53
    Originally posted by AlphaAlekhine
    So, I'm playing through the Black side of this; trying to familiarize myself with it. Man this is terrible for Black. Any ideas? Qa5 looked about the best as the first move out of book. But, it appears that barring some novelty, Black is playing uphill the whole time. Any suggestions would be most welcome.
    Don't play Qc7 on move 5 even if you have been distracted by a nice cup of tea! What follows will leave you scarred for life. To be honest I think the best thing to do is just develop normally and ignore white's attempts to play silly gambits. Take the first pawn and then leave the second alone. Play a sensible developing move instead. Nc6 looks reasonable and ought to take the sting away. If you do decide to take the second pawn then 4..... Nc6 after white has played 4 Nxc3 looks reasonable. Apart from that I suggest you never put light bulbs in your back pocket.
  6. Standard member Dragon Fire
    Lord of all beasts
    12 Apr '07 20:02
    Originally posted by AlphaAlekhine
    I don't have the line here in front of me. It's the main line, I suppose. Sorry, I should have come more prepared. I'm at work and don't have time to try to recall all the moves. On move 13, I beleive, the book line ends.
    Qa5 is not in the Main Line Morra Gambit but will arise after the following sequence of moves:
    1. e4 .. c5;
    2. d4 .. cd;
    3. c3 .. dc;
    4.Nxc3 .. Nc6;
    5. Nf3 .. d6;
    6. Bc4 .. e6;
    7. 0-0 .. Be7;
    8. Qe2 .. a6;
    9. Rd1 .. Qa5?!

    The "?!" is Palkovis not mine. In his book on the morra Gambit the line continues for another 20 moves but the assessment is favorable for white after the "normal" continuatiomn

    10. Bf4 .. Ne5;
    11. Nxe5 .. de;
    12. Qh5!
  7. 12 Apr '07 20:12 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Dragon Fire
    Qa5 is not in the Main Line Morra Gambit but will arise after the following sequence of moves:
    1. e4 .. c5;
    2. d4 .. cd;
    3. c3 .. dc;
    4.Nxc3 .. Nc6;
    5. Nf3 .. d6;
    6. Bc4 .. e6;
    7. 0-0 .. Be7;
    8. Qe2 .. a6;
    9. Rd1 .. Qa5?!

    The "?!" is Palkovis not mine. In his book on the morra Gambit the line continues for another 20 moves but the assessment ...[text shortened]... ble for white after the "normal" continuatiomn

    10. Bf4 .. Ne5;
    11. Nxe5 .. de;
    12. Qh5!
    Yes, that's the one. Wow, I and I found it all by myself. Sadly, I know not where to go from there. I like the advice of leaving the c3 pawn alone. I think I will try that.

    Though in the line you gave, I played differently. 7...Nf6, 8....Be7,
    9...O-O, 10....a6, 11....h6, and then the Qa5. Granted I was learning this sequence from CM 3000, so I'm sure the theory has changed.
  8. Standard member Dragon Fire
    Lord of all beasts
    12 Apr '07 22:07
    Originally posted by Kepler
    Don't play Qc7 on move 5 even if you have been distracted by a nice cup of tea! What follows will leave you scarred for life. To be honest I think the best thing to do is just develop normally and ignore white's attempts to play silly gambits. Take the first pawn and then leave the second alone. Play a sensible developing move instead. Nc6 looks reasonable an ...[text shortened]... xc3 looks reasonable. Apart from that I suggest you never put light bulbs in your back pocket.
    This is what happens if you play 5. ... Qc7 Game 3383671.
  9. 12 Apr '07 23:01 / 1 edit
    After 5...Qc7
    6.Nb5...Qb8
    puts her on the vital h2-b8 diagonal, stopping an early Bf4 & bolstering d6 & e5, but that's the only logical reason for playing it.
    Then as black you'd probably develop Nf6, e6, d6 etc & be ok.

    b8 useful for Her Majesty?
    white to move, maybe Bc4
  10. Standard member Kepler
    Demon Duck
    12 Apr '07 23:45
    Originally posted by Squelchbelch
    After 5...Qc7
    6.Nb5...Qb8
    puts her on the vital h2-b8 diagonal, stopping an early Bf4 & bolstering d6 & e5, but that's the only logical reason for playing it.
    Then as black you'd probably develop Nf6, e6, d6 etc & be ok.

    b8 useful for Her Majesty?
    white to move, maybe Bc4
    [fen]rqb1kbnr/pp1ppppp/2n5/1N6/4P3/5N2/PP3PPP/R1BQKB1R w KQkq - 0 7[/fen]
    Now you tell me! I do remember thinking about Qb8 at the time but I discarded it for some reason. Maybe an overly tempting biscuit with the cup of tea?
  11. 12 Apr '07 23:57 / 1 edit
    Well yes, 6...Qb8 looks bad at first glance because white seems to have all the play & black has just returned the queen to the back-rank.

    As black you have to think of playing the Morra rather like hypermodernism.
    White should continue to push on & develop rapidly, whilst black must play solidly & dare I say it modestly & hope white over-extends himself.
    That's the thinking behind a tame looking move like Qb8 after Nb5.
  12. 13 Apr '07 14:24
    My thanks to all of you. Your insights have been very helpful. Maybe there is hope for Black after all
  13. Standard member adam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    13 Apr '07 14:42
    Originally posted by AlphaAlekhine
    My thanks to all of you. Your insights have been very helpful. Maybe there is hope for Black after all
    Yes, yes. Especially the hypermodern view that black must have.
  14. Standard member Kepler
    Demon Duck
    13 Apr '07 15:33
    Originally posted by Squelchbelch
    Well yes, 6...Qb8 looks bad at first glance because white seems to have all the play & black has just returned the queen to the back-rank.

    As black you have to think of playing the Morra rather like hypermodernism.
    White should continue to push on & develop rapidly, whilst black must play solidly & dare I say it modestly & hope white over-extends himself.
    That's the thinking behind a tame looking move like Qb8 after Nb5.
    Hypermodernism hmmm? Yes, well that is one of the reasons I wasn't too worried about losing the plot when confronted with a cup of tea. I like the Reti and other hypermodern stuff where move order doesn't matter so much. Qc7 before a6? So what? What could possibly go wrong? I nearly sprayed the screen with the aforementioned tea when I saw Nb5 staring at me. At that point all semblance of chess playing ability vanished in a puff of smoke. Best not to let white get too much of an advantage with this gambit lark, just develop quietly and politely give him his pawn back.
  15. Standard member Dragon Fire
    Lord of all beasts
    13 Apr '07 16:01 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Kepler
    Hypermodernism hmmm? Yes, well that is one of the reasons I wasn't too worried about losing the plot when confronted with a cup of tea. I like the Reti and other hypermodern stuff where move order doesn't matter so much. Qc7 before a6? So what? What could possibly go wrong? I nearly sprayed the screen with the aforementioned tea when I saw Nb5 staring at me. ...[text shortened]... an advantage with this gambit lark, just develop quietly and politely give him his pawn back.
    I do struggle most when faced with 3. ... d3. Annoying that as after BXd3 (not immediately necessary but eventually it will be played) my B is not where I want it and I can't get my Knight to c3 without playing c4 (giving a tempo back).

    If you don't like the wild tactics of most gambits often the best thing to do is return the pawn fairly early (I always return the pawn with the Danish, after accepting 2) and usually face the Kings Gambit with the Falkbeer Counter gambit.

    I don't drink tea so its never troubled my game but I think I'd pass out on the keyboard and make some wild irrational moves if my wife ever bought me a coffee whilst I was playing chess. Usually all I get is "You f****** waster, I don't know why I ever married you. Get a life and get off that f****** chess site if you don't want another divorce". Then I move quickly in frustration - that is when I usually make my most horrific, seemingly random and definately stupid blunders.