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  1. 14 Oct '08 22:47
    here is a game played on another site, which is the worst defeat that i have ever suffered, i literally got blown away. All set with my new book, Norwoods, winning with the modern, i played my opening preparation and my opponent did not take the center, whats he doing i thought, wasting moves moving his pawn up the side, why doesn't he develop, withing six or seven moves my Kingside was gone and by move eight or nine i was history, pure agony.

    here is the disaster for your perusal, i was gonna send it to someone for advice, maybe Paul or greenpawn but i don't want to hassle them so i will just make it public, the pain is still lingering some twenty four hours later, be kind!

  2. 14 Oct '08 22:48 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    here is a game played on another site, which is the worst defeat that i have ever suffered, i literally got blown away. All set with my new book, Norwoods, winning with the modern, i played my opening preparation and my opponent did not take the center, whats he doing i thought, wasting moves moving his pawn up the side, why doesn't he develop, with c3 d5 8.e5 Nfd7 9.Rxh7 Nf8 10.Rxg7 Rh1 11.Kf1 e6 12.Qg4 Rh4 13.Bxg6+ 1-0[/pgn]
    Prevent h5! Or just don't play the modern.

    More in depth comments later.

    Also, 8...Ne4 looks better at a quick glance.
  3. 14 Oct '08 22:51 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by tomtom232
    Prevent h5! Or just don't play the modern.

    More in depth comments later.
    oh tom tom, i need someone to cry to, the modern is sound, good and flexible, its me, im mince! preventing h5 was no good, for example playing h5 myself was no good as it weakens the kingside which is no good as any issues in the center have still been unresolved, i.e. whether it will become locked or mobile, at least this was my thinking at the time, it did turn out that my kingside got blown away anyway.
  4. 14 Oct '08 22:56
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    oh tom tom, i need someone to cry to, the modern is sound, good and flexible, its me, im mince!
    Or if you don't want to play h5 to prevent h5 then don't waste time dilly dallying to fianchetto the other bishop... you have to attack and undermine whites center.. NOW! by d5.
  5. 14 Oct '08 22:57
    Originally posted by tomtom232
    Or if you don't want to play h5 to prevent h5 then don't waste time dilly dallying to fianchetto the other bishop... you have to attack and undermine whites center.. NOW! by d5.
    yes d5 is good, i just thought at the time that as my opponent has not taken the center i have time to fianchetto, at least that was my thinking!
  6. 14 Oct '08 22:58
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    yes d5 is good, i just thought at the time that as my opponent has not taken the center i have time to fianchetto, at least that was my thinking!
    He was following classical rules... you let him grab the center for "free" so he started a wing attack.. the refutation to a wing attack always is a counter attack in the center.
  7. 14 Oct '08 23:00
    Originally posted by tomtom232
    He was following classical rules... you let him grab the center for "free" so he started a wing attack.. the refutation to a wing attack always is a counter attack in the center.
    man its so simple now that you mention it, thanks i will try to remember this! he was from Scotland as well, if i see him im gonna beat him up!
  8. 14 Oct '08 23:05
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    man its so simple now that you mention it, thanks i will try to remember this! he was from Scotland as well, if i see him im gonna beat him up!
    after

    1.e4 g6 2.h4 d5 3.h5 dxe4 4.hxg6 fxg6 5.Nc3 Nf6 6.Nh3 Bf5 7.Ng5 Nc6 8.Rh4 Qd7 9.Ncxe4 Nxe4 10.Nxe4 O-O-O 11.Bb5 Qe6

    Black looks okay. To be safe I would just play ...h5 though.
  9. 14 Oct '08 23:19 / 2 edits
    2. ... h5 is sound and may in fact be recommended By Soltis.
    It's surprising how hard it is for white to renew the attack after h5. If you look at the 1. e4 g6 2. d4 Bg7 3.Nc3 c6 4. f4 d5 in the Norwood book, you will find that h5 comes in later anyway. The main idea of that sysem is a light square blockade.
    3. ... b6 is a overdoing it a bit. It may work, but I'd prefer 3. ... c5 taking the dark squares (or d6 or c6).

    After hxg6 by white, in this and similar fianchetto positions hxg6 for black is almost always right (following the general rule always recapture toward the center). fxg6 weakened control of e6 (after a d pawn push). It also separated your pawns into two islands, which isn't great.

    This is why one of the reasons I dislike the Modern. If you play it, you have to play it just right. It's a great defense if you truly master it and if it suits your style. Again see Duncan Suttles (Correspondence and OTB GM) who used it every chance.

    The d pawn push highlights the weaknesses I mentioned. You have a big hole on e5 and e6. Even if there weren't a tactical combination, that positional problem alone could cause you constant pain.

    Once he ripped open the position and highlighted your lack of development and weakness it was over.

    Your going to lose a lot of games like this adjusting to the nuances of the opening. After you see enough of them, you'll be thinking about how to prevent them long before they come up. It's all part of the learning curve.
  10. 14 Oct '08 23:29
    Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromfics
    2. ... h5 is sound and may in fact be recommended By Soltis.
    It's surprising how hard it is for white to renew the attack after h5. If you look at the 1. e4 g6 2. d4 Bg7 3.Nc3 c6 4. f4 d5 in the Norwood book, you will find that h5 comes in later anyway. The main idea of that sysem is a light square blockade.
    3. ... b6 is a overdoing it a bi ...[text shortened]... about how to prevent them long before they come up. It's all part of the learning curve.
    Who cares about what Soltis reccomends. The fact that tomtom232 reccomends it ought to make you worship the move.
  11. 14 Oct '08 23:45
    Originally posted by tomtom232
    Who cares about what Soltis reccomends. The fact that tomtom232 reccomends it ought to make you worship the move.
    OK but if it gets refuted, his blood is on your hands.
  12. 14 Oct '08 23:46 / 1 edit
    2.h4 v the Modern was a suggestion of Fischer's.

    It's a good try in Blitz games

    I play 2...h5 and that's all the theory I know on it.
    Nunn played 2...h5 when he faced it - that's good enough for me.
    I then play it like a Pirc, like he did.

    Some source's say 2...d5 is best (centre action v flank attack).
  13. 14 Oct '08 23:49
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    2.h4 v the Modern was a suggestion of Fischer's.

    It's a good try in Blitz games

    I play 2...h5 and that's all the theory I know on it.
    Nunn played 2...h5 when he faced it - that's good enough for me.
    I then play it like a Pirc, like he did.

    Some source's say 2...d5 is best (centre action v flank attack).
    Well, I reccomend either one... it really looks more like a preference to me.
  14. 14 Oct '08 23:50 / 2 edits
    4... hxg6!!! then RxR, BxR and eventually you castle queenside allowing your rook to slide to h8 using the open file against white. or even

    Clearly you can't play Rg8 like in this game, but this an idea worth investigating.

  15. 14 Oct '08 23:53
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    2.h4 v the Modern was a suggestion of Fischer's.

    It's a good try in Blitz games

    I play 2...h5 and that's all the theory I know on it.
    Nunn played 2...h5 when he faced it - that's good enough for me.
    I then play it like a Pirc, like he did.

    Some source's say 2...d5 is best (centre action v flank attack).
    I recall a Shirazi game with it.

    I have dabbled with it myself.

    After 1. e4 g6 2. h4 h5, the attack is over!

    I then switch to something like 3. d4 Bg7 4. c3 d6 5. Bg5 .

    The bishop tends to aggravate black, and it gains a lot of time in blitz.

    Whether or not it is playable in a long game or not is debatable.