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Need some help

Need some help

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Ok, here's the game:

[Event "Rated game, 3m + 0s"]
[Site "Main Playing Hall"]
[Date "2007.04.08"]
[Round "?"]
[White "CMSMaster"]
[Black "Wlqm"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D07"]
[WhiteElo "1424"]
[BlackElo "1421"]
[PlyCount "89"]
[EventDate "2007.04.08"]
[TimeControl "180"]

1. d4 {2} d5 {2} 2. c4 {1} Nc6 {2} 3. Nf3 {4} Bg4 {2} 4. e3 {3} e5 {9} 5. dxe5
{9} Nxe5 {2} 6. Be2 {5} Nxf3+ {12} 7. Bxf3 {2} Bb4+ {2} 8. Bd2 {4} Bxd2+ {2} 9.
Nxd2 {2} Bxf3 {8} 10. Nxf3 {1} dxc4 {5} 11. Qc2 {7} Qd3 {5} 12. Qa4+ {4} c6 {3}
13. Rd1 {4} Qe4 {7} 14. Rd4 {4} Qe6 {2} 15. Qxc4 {7} Qxc4 {2} 16. Rxc4 {1} Nf6
{5} 17. O-O {2} O-O {1} 18. Rd1 {2} Rfd8 {3} 19. Rcd4 {3} Rxd4 {2} 20. Rxd4 {3}
Kf8 {11} 21. Ne5 {2} Re8 {13} 22. Nd7+ {3} Nxd7 {2} 23. Rxd7 {1} Re7 {4} 24.
Rd8+ {2} Re8 {1} 25. Rxe8+ {1} Kxe8 {1} 26. Kf1 {1} Ke7 {5} 27. Ke2 {1} Kd6 {1}
28. Kd3 {1} b5 {3} 29. b3 {5} a5 {2} 30. a3 {2} f5 {4} 31. f3 {2} c5 {11} 32.
g4 {2} fxg4 {4} 33. fxg4 {2} g5 {8} 34. Ke4 {6} a4 {12} 35. bxa4 {3} bxa4 {2}
36. Kd3 {3} Kd5 {15} 37. e4+ {2} Ke5 {1} 38. Kc4 {2} Kxe4 {1} 39. Kxc5 {1} Kf4
{1} 40. Kb5 {0} Kxg4 {1} 41. Kxa4 {0} Kh3 {1} 42. Kb5 {0} Kxh2 {1} 43. a4 {0}
g4 {1} 44. a5 {0} g3 {2} 45. a6 {Tijd ' 0} 1-0


I just played that on Playchess (3-0) and I wasn't very impressed with my crappy endgame play, but I'm not entirely sure on where I went wrong (and I don't have tablebases - where can I get them btw?). Anyhow, any help with the endgame would be nice - I'm not entirely sure I lost it, but it's definitely not good for white. Anybody can comment, but I prefer that people who actually know what they're talking about comment.

Ouch, maybe some comments on the opening too, because the Ref. DB doesn't look too pretty for white 3 losses all in 19 or 20 moves. 😕

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Originally posted by cmsMaster
Ok, here's the game:

[Event "Rated game, 3m + 0s"]
[Site "Main Playing Hall"]
[Date "2007.04.08"]
[Round "?"]
[White "CMSMaster"]
[Black "Wlqm"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D07"]
[WhiteElo "1424"]
[BlackElo "1421"]
[PlyCount "89"]
[EventDate "2007.04.08"]
[TimeControl "180"]

1. d4 {2} d5 {2} 2. c4 {1} Nc6 {2} 3. Nf3 {4} Bg4 {2} 4. e3 {3} e5 {9} ...[text shortened]... look too pretty for white 3 losses all in 19 or 20 moves. 😕
When someone plays this line against you (2..Nc6, the Chigorin Defence, which is bound to become more popular, since Morozevich, the man who's most famous for playing it in top level events, just wrote an awesome book on it), you have to take on d5 on move 3 to punish black for his Tom-Foolery. The line I always play is:

1. d4 d5 2. c4 Nc6!? 3. cxd5 Qxd5 4. e3 e5 5. Nc3 Bb4 6. Bd2 Bxc3 7. Bxc3 exd4 8. Ne2! , when White will enter an endgame with an extra center pawn and the two B's. Only White can really win this.

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I would of tried to of kept the queens on the board, move ten I would of tired Qa4+ pick up the pawn on the next move then castle. You were slightly ahead in development, black needs to get the knight out then castle, you can also pester the queen with Ra1-D1.

With quick games your better to complicate the situation rather than get to an end game within about 20 moves. Either use openings you know inside out (time advantage) or go for slightly obscure openings such as King's Indian attack. KIA is pretty solid, I mainly use it for my bullet games at playchess (1900+ rating) always causes problems for people 😀

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Shredder has an online endgame database, all endgames up to six pieces except 5 v 1.

http://www.shredderchess.com/online-chess/online-databases/endgame-database.html

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Originally posted by cmsMaster
Anybody can comment, but I prefer that people who actually know what they're talking about comment.
Dang, that leaves me out.

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Originally posted by Mad Rook
Dang, that leaves me out.
No it doesn't, not if you make a comment that's actually on topic...

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Originally posted by !~TONY~!
When someone plays this line against you (2..Nc6, the Chigorin Defence, which is bound to become more popular, since Morozevich, the man who's most famous for playing it in top level events, just wrote an awesome book on it), you have to take on d5 on move 3 to punish black for his Tom-Foolery. The line I always play is:

1. d4 d5 2. c4 Nc6!? 3. cxd5 Qxd5 ...[text shortened]... ll enter an endgame with an extra center pawn and the two B's. Only White can really win this.
Ah, thanks, this is one of those lines I haven't seen very much (Chigorin). Anyhow, I'm pretty sure I'm ordering PTQG today, so I won't be so confused with what to play against these defense. Thanks for the help.

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Originally posted by Audacious
I would of tried to of kept the queens on the board, move ten I would of tired Qa4+ pick up the pawn on the next move then castle. You were slightly ahead in development, black needs to get the knight out then castle, you can also pester the queen with Ra1-D1.

With quick games your better to complicate the situation rather than get to an end game within ...[text shortened]... nly use it for my bullet games at playchess (1900+ rating) always causes problems for people 😀
Yeah, I actually forgot about Qa4+ and was a bit annoyed with myself for that one, otherwise I would've played it for sure. I'm trying to learn the 1.d4 openings though, so I'm not going to be playing something I know better than everyone else right now - although I used to with the KG.

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Originally posted by st00p1dfac3
Shredder has an online endgame database, all endgames up to six pieces except 5 v 1.

http://www.shredderchess.com/online-chess/online-databases/endgame-database.html
Thanks I forgot about that, unfortunately this endgame has too many pieces.

BTW:That's a DB not a TB

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Originally posted by cmsMaster
Thanks I forgot about that, unfortunately this endgame has too many pieces.

BTW:That's a DB not a TB
Endgame DB's are tablebases - i thought. But, I could be wrong - they don't mean much to me, because I almost never get anywhere near 6 pieces or less... maybe twice, ever. Anyway, if I'm wrong sorry for wasting your time.

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Originally posted by st00p1dfac3
Endgame DB's are tablebases - i thought. But, I could be wrong - they don't mean much to me, because I almost never get anywhere near
Nope, different stuff - DB's are games that have been reached in that position, Tablebases show only the best move in the position - perfect chess.

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Originally posted by cmsMaster
Nope, different stuff - DB's are games that have been reached in that position, Tablebases show only the best move in the position - perfect chess.
That one shows you the best moves, and makes no reference to games played before. It gives you the number of moves to win/loss/draw. It's not a DB in terms of games that have been played. I think.

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Originally posted by cmsMaster
Nope, different stuff - DB's are games that have been reached in that position, Tablebases show only the best move in the position - perfect chess.
Not exactly.
A tablebase is a fully populated database, in this case, of endgame positions winning, losing and drawing. It is the "fully populated" part that makes it a tablebase rather than the more generic "database".

BTW I agree with !~TONY~! .. simply accepting black's gracious gift of a central pawn is usually enough to give white an edge. Black certainly has a few tricks up his sleeve but White really doesn't need to know much theory to get a decent game.

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BTW Silman has a free ebook on the Chigorin by Manuel Gerardo Monasterio on his site here

http://www.jeremysilman.com/chess_opng_anlys/chigorin_E_Book.html

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