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Nice Knights

Subscribergreenpawn34
Only Chess 11 Jun '11 12:49
  1. Subscribergreenpawn34
    e4
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    11 Jun '11 12:491 edit
    A nice finish to an OTB game played in Australia.

    S.Solomn - M.Steadman 2011

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  2. Donationketchuplover
    Isolated Pawn
    Wisconsin USA
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    11 Jun '11 12:57
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    A nice finish to an OTB game played in Australia.

    S.Solomn - M.Steadman 2011

    [pgn]
    [FEN "8/5K1k/4N3/8/6N1/8/5p2/8 w - - 0 1"]
    1. Nf8+ Kh8 2. Nf6 {This is the cool move. Without the f-pawn it's now stalemate. The Knight on f6 sets up the mate and blocks the promotion check.} 2..f1=Q {If I was Black here I would taken a Knight.} 3. Ng6[/pgn]
    worthy of knighthood!
  3. Standard memberkbear1k
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    11 Jun '11 18:13
    Reminds me of the time years ago in college (when I had time to waste) going over the endgames ot Troitzky in his 360 collection published by Dover - I think I wore out the binding and cover of the first paperback I had. His studies started me down the path of seriously studying endgames. While not always very practical his studies did impress on me the need to look for saving moves in apparently lost positions. What I did like about his positions was that many were entirel possible in real play as opposed to some chess puzzles which would never occur.
    BTW - can you post the rest of the game? (It would be interesting to see what took place prior to the given position.)
  4. Subscribergreenpawn34
    e4
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    11 Jun '11 23:511 edit
    I don't know the rest of the game.
    I saw the puzzle in the latest CHESS.
    Will see if I can track down the game.
  5. Standard membermoon1969
    Houston, Texas
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    12 Jun '11 10:39
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    A nice finish to an OTB game played in Australia.

    S.Solomn - M.Steadman 2011

    [pgn]
    [FEN "8/5K1k/4N3/8/6N1/8/5p2/8 w - - 0 1"]
    1. Nf8+ Kh8 2. Nf6 {This is the cool move. Without the f-pawn it's now stalemate. The Knight on f6 sets up the mate and blocks the promotion check.} 2..f1=Q {If I was Black here I would taken a Knight.} 3. Ng6[/pgn]
    So you can mate a solo King in the corner with two knights if he has another piece elsewhere on the board to move. I did not know that.
  6. t
    Standard membertorten
    bedlam
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    12 Jun '11 11:16
    Originally posted by moon1969
    So you can mate a solo King in the corner with two knights if he has another piece elsewhere on the board to move. I did not know that.
    I sense we'll soon see a troitsky thread 🙂
  7. Standard memberkbear1k
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    12 Jun '11 11:52
    "So you can mate a solo King in the corner with two knights if he has another piece elsewhere on the board to move. I did not know that."
    Yes if that piece is a pawn - your opponents king gets forced into the corner which would normally lead to a stalemate. However the other knight moves forcing a move of the pawn. The knight eventually forces mate before the advanced pawn becomes a problem. Troitzky's other endgame (and middlegame) studies are amazing. The 2nd volume of Andre Cheron's endgame books also has a very large amount of analysis where he leverages a lot from Troitzky. I'd like to see his work translated from the original German.
  8. Subscribergreenpawn34
    e4
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    12 Jun '11 12:313 edits
    Hi

    "So you can mate a solo King in the corner with two knights ."

    You can do it with one Knight! under the correct conditions.
    This is from an OTB game as well.
    The names escape me (shocking and lazy) but the position has stuck.

    Edit:
    Nogueiras - Gongora, Cuba 2001
    (I went to Wiki for the details, the White player's first name is Jesus...
    If this inspires any miracle jokes please take them to the Religious Forum)

    I'll check later on today to see if anyone on RHP has one of these...or better still....missed one 😉

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  9. V
    Standard memberVarenka
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    12 Jun '11 12:391 edit
    Originally posted by kbear1k
    "So you can mate a solo King in the corner with two knights if he has another piece elsewhere on the board to move. I did not know that."
    Yes if that piece is a pawn - your opponents king gets forced into the corner which would normally lead to a stalemate.
    I know what you mean, it is usually a pawn. But interestingly, in the initial position posted, the Black pawn could have been a knight or a bishop with the same theme.
  10. Standard membermoon1969
    Houston, Texas
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    12 Jun '11 13:46
    Originally posted by Varenka
    I know what you mean, it is usually a pawn. But interestingly, in the initial position posted, the Black pawn could have been a knight or a bishop with the same theme.
    Yes, that black pawn on that square could have been a bishop or knight on that square, and still mate.

    In general, I knew that you could mate a king in a corner with two knights if he had other pieces around his king obstructing an escape square for his king, but I had never thought mating a naked king in the corner with two knights, avoiding statelmate via movement of another of his pieces on the board.

    I need to study end games more.
  11. s
    Standard membersylvander
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    12 Jun '11 13:48
    Here's the full game from the original post:

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  12. Subscribergreenpawn34
    e4
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    12 Jun '11 13:561 edit
    Edit - we posted at the same time: 😉

    As requested here is the full game also GM Ian Rogers shows the final sequence:

    http://itschess.blogspot.com/2011/04/gm-ian-rogers-shows-nice-endgame.html

    adding that here (Bleck to play):


    That there have been 44 moves played without a piece being taken
    or a pawn being pushed so Solomon only had six moves left
    to produce the mate or accept the draw under the 50 move rule.

    Incredible. This game will no doubt be entering chess lore.
    Six moves left before the forced draw and White mates in 5 with two Knights.

    Even more incredible is the fact that these two hero Knights beat
    a Queen twice in this game. This is the postion after 31 moves.



    Solomon, Stephen J. (2397) vs Steadman, Michael (2285) Doeberl Cup ,Canberra 20011

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  13. t
    Standard membertharkesh
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    12 Jun '11 14:271 edit
    And the amazing 62. Kxh2 instead of Kxg3 - which shows, what he had in mind already (dont take that pawn, is needed later to avoid stalemate!). I wonder, whether black couldn't have avoided mate a few moves longer, say by manouvering the king to a different position earlier. like the upper left corner, which would have taken the knight a bit longer to reach? or am i underestimating the fact, that diagonals are as long as straight lines on a chess board?
  14. c
    Standard memberclandarkfire
    Grammar Nazi
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    12 Jun '11 17:51
    The game is actually drawn until move 87, when black erred by playing 87...Kg7
    (via endgame tablebase)
  15. SubscriberPaul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
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    13 Jun '11 12:31
    Originally posted by moon1969
    So you can mate a solo King in the corner with two knights if he has another piece elsewhere on the board to move. I did not know that.
    The essential idea is zugzwang-related. The side with the two knights has to have the other king stalemated (frozen in place but not in check), but needs another move by the opponent to deliver the actual checkmate.
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