Not so 'forced draw'?

A Unique Nickname View Profile

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15 Oct '11 17:02

A Unique Nickname
Joined
10 Jan '08
Moves
16950
15 Oct '11 17:02
Was just offered and accepted a draw in this game, but was there a win for black?

EVENT Open invite
SITE http://www.timeforchess.com
DATE 2011.09.23
ROUND ?
WHITE Trev33
BLACK ElsaVonBrabant
WHITEELO 1723
BLACKELO 1910
Invert Board PGN Headers
[Event "Open invite"]
[Site "http://www.timeforchess.com"]
[Date "2011.09.23"]
[EndDate "2011.10.15"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Trev33"]
[Black "ElsaVonBrabant"]
[WhiteRating "1723"]
[BlackRating "1910"]
[WhiteElo "1723"]
[BlackElo "1910"]
[GameId "8726544"]

1. e4 f5 2. exf5 Ke8f7 3. d4 Ng8f6 4. Ng1f3 Kf7g8 5. c4 d5 6. c5 Bc8xf5 7. Bf1d3 e6 8. Qd1e2 Qd8e8 9. Bc1g5 Bf5xd3 10. Qe2xd3 b6 11. b4 a5 12. bxa5 bxc5 13. dxc5 Nf6e4 14. Bg5e3 Ra8xa5 15. Nb1d2 Ne4xc5 16. Be3xc5 Ra5xc5 17. O-O Nb8c6 18. Rf1e1 Nc6b4 19. Qd3b3 Nb4c2 20. Ra1c1 Nc2xe1 21. Rc1xe1 Rc5b5 22. Qb3a4 Rb5b8 23. Qa4g4 h5 24. Qg4h3 Rh8h6 25. Nf3g5 Rb8b2 26. Qh3d3 Bf8b4 27. Re1xe6 Rh6xe6 28. Qd3h7 Kg8f8 29. Qh7f5 Re6f6 30. Ng5h7 Kf8g8 31. Nh7xf6 gxf6 32. Nd2f3 Qe8f7 33. g3 Rb2xa2 34. Qf5b1 Ra2a4 35. Qb1b3 Qf7d7 36. Kg1g2 c5 37. Qb3c2 Ra4a3 38. Qc2g6 Qd7g7 39. Qg6e8 Qg7f8 40. Qe8g6 Qf8g7 41. Qg6e8 Kg8h7 42. Qe8xh5 Qg7h6 1/2-1/2

This is what i see happening

EVENT Open invite
SITE http://www.timeforchess.com
DATE 2011.09.23
ROUND ?
WHITE Trev33
BLACK ElsaVonBrabant
WHITEELO 1723
BLACKELO 1910
Invert Board PGN Headers
[Event "Open invite"]
[Site "http://www.timeforchess.com"]
[Date "2011.09.23"]
[EndDate "2011.10.15"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Trev33"]
[Black "ElsaVonBrabant"]
[WhiteRating "1723"]
[BlackRating "1910"]
[WhiteElo "1723"]
[BlackElo "1910"]
[GameId "8726544"]

1. e4 f5 2. exf5 Ke8f7 3. d4 Ng8f6 4. Ng1f3 Kf7g8 5. c4 d5 6. c5 Bc8xf5 7. Bf1d3 e6 8. Qd1e2 Qd8e8 9. Bc1g5 Bf5xd3 10. Qe2xd3 b6 11. b4 a5 12. bxa5 bxc5 13. dxc5 Nf6e4 14. Bg5e3 Ra8xa5 15. Nb1d2 Ne4xc5 16. Be3xc5 Ra5xc5 17. O-O Nb8c6 18. Rf1e1 Nc6b4 19. Qd3b3 Nb4c2 20. Ra1c1 Nc2xe1 21. Rc1xe1 Rc5b5 22. Qb3a4 Rb5b8 23. Qa4g4 h5 24. Qg4h3 Rh8h6 25. Nf3g5 Rb8b2 26. Qh3d3 Bf8b4 27. Re1xe6 Rh6xe6 28. Qd3h7 Kg8f8 29. Qh7f5 Re6f6 30. Ng5h7 Kf8g8 31. Nh7xf6 gxf6 32. Nd2f3 Qe8f7 33. g3 Rb2xa2 34. Qf5b1 Ra2a4 35. Qb1b3 Qf7d7 36. Kg1g2 c5 37. Qb3c2 Ra4a3 38. Qc2g6 Qd7g7 39. Qg6e8 Qg7f8 40. Qe8g6 Qf8g7 41. Qg6e8 Kg8h7 42. Qe8xh5 Kgh7g8 43. Qh5e4 Qg7f8 44. Qe4g6 Kgg8h8 45. Qg6h5 Kgh8g7 46. Nf3h4 Ra3a8 47. Qh5g6 Kgg7h8 48. Qg6h5 Kgh8g8 49. Qh5g6 Qf8g7

no?

ok i give up, what is wrong with the pgn?
Ragwort
Senecio Jacobaea
Yorkshire
Joined
04 Jul '09
Moves
186020
15 Oct '11 18:211 edit
You have some of the moves wrong 43. Qh5e4 is impossible for example - do you mean d5?
And some of black's king moves have an extra letter in them after the K: Kgh7g8 instead of Kg7g8 presumably
Ragwort
Senecio Jacobaea
Yorkshire
Joined
04 Jul '09
Moves
186020
15 Oct '11 18:33
Originally posted by Trev33
Was just offered and accepted a draw in this game, but was there a win for black?

k i give up, what is wrong with the pgn?
Was this what you meant?

EVENT Open invite
SITE http://www.timeforchess.com
DATE 2011.09.23
ROUND ?
WHITE Trev33
BLACK ElsaVonBrabant
WHITEELO 1723
BLACKELO 1910
Invert Board PGN Headers
[Event "Open invite"]
[Site "http://www.timeforchess.com"]
[Date "2011.09.23"]
[EndDate "2011.10.15"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Trev33"]
[Black "ElsaVonBrabant"]
[WhiteRating "1723"]
[BlackRating "1910"]
[WhiteElo "1723"]
[BlackElo "1910"]
[GameId "8726544"]

1. e4 f5 2. exf5 Ke8f7 3. d4 Ng8f6 4. Ng1f3 Kf7g8 5. c4 d5 6. c5 Bc8xf5 7. Bf1d3 e6 8. Qd1e2 Qd8e8 9. Bc1g5 Bf5xd3 10. Qe2xd3 b6 11. b4 a5 12. bxa5 bxc5 13. dxc5 Nf6e4 14. Bg5e3 Ra8xa5 15. Nb1d2 Ne4xc5 16. Be3xc5 Ra5xc5 17. O-O Nb8c6 18. Rf1e1 Nc6b4 19. Qd3b3 Nb4c2 20. Ra1c1 Nc2xe1 21. Rc1xe1 Rc5b5 22. Qb3a4 Rb5b8 23. Qa4g4 h5 24. Qg4h3 Rh8h6 25. Nf3g5 Rb8b2 26. Qh3d3 Bf8b4 27. Re1xe6 Rh6xe6 28. Qd3h7 Kg8f8 29. Qh7f5 Re6f6 30. Ng5h7 Kf8g8 31. Nh7xf6 gxf6 32. Nd2f3 Qe8f7 33. g3 Rb2xa2 34. Qf5b1 Ra2a4 35. Qb1b3 Qf7d7 36. Kg1g2 c5 37. Qb3c2 Ra4a3 38. Qc2g6 Qd7g7 39. Qg6e8 Qg7f8 40. Qe8g6 Qf8g7 41. Qg6e8 Kg8h7 42. Qe8xh5 Kh7g8 43. Qh5f5 Qg7f8 44. Qf5g6 Kg8h8 45. Qg6h5 Kh8g7 46. Nf3h4 Ra3a8 47. Qh5g6 Kg7h8 48. Qg6h5 Kh8g8 49. Qh5g6 Qf8g7
A Unique Nickname
Joined
10 Jan '08
Moves
16950
15 Oct '11 18:36
YES. Thank you.
A Unique Nickname
Joined
10 Jan '08
Moves
16950
15 Oct '11 18:37
I'm right though, there's no forced draw there?
tomtom232
Joined
15 Jun '06
Moves
16334
15 Oct '11 18:46
Originally posted by Trev33
I'm right though, there's no forced draw there?
43.Qe8+ instead of 43.Qf5 seems to keep the perpetual.
A Unique Nickname
Joined
10 Jan '08
Moves
16950
15 Oct '11 19:13
Originally posted by tomtom232
43.Qe8+ instead of 43.Qf5 seems to keep the perpetual.
oops, that's what it was supposed to be. I'll crawl back into my cave lol

Look at the first pgn, forced draw?
Marinkatomb
wotagr8game
tbc
Joined
18 Feb '04
Moves
61941
15 Oct '11 19:25
Well personally i'd say being a rook up is normally enough to win. Just exchange Queens?
mikelom
Ajarn
Wat?
Joined
16 Aug '05
Moves
76863
15 Oct '11 20:44
Sorry? 🙄 ... second black move?

Can't be bothered to go past that, it must have been a classic game! 😀

-m.
tomtom232
Joined
15 Jun '06
Moves
16334
15 Oct '11 20:58
Originally posted by Trev33
oops, that's what it was supposed to be. I'll crawl back into my cave lol

Look at the first pgn, forced draw?
No, it doesn't appear to be a perpetual. It is a known pattern that one side can't perpetual with a lone queen vs king and queen in the corner unless the position has other factors that keep the king out of g7.
torten
bedlam
Joined
20 Feb '11
Moves
6387
16 Oct '11 00:14
Originally posted by tomtom232
No, it doesn't appear to be a perpetual. It is a known pattern that one side can't perpetual with a lone queen vs king and queen in the corner unless the position has other factors that keep the king out of g7.
Unknown pattern to me.
Now I know that means little but,from the game,after 43.Qf7+,how can black escape the perp other than by trading queen for knight?I don't see it 😳
tomtom232
Joined
15 Jun '06
Moves
16334
16 Oct '11 00:59
@torten

Invert Board PGN
1. e4 f5 2. exf5 Ke8f7 3. d4 Ng8f6 4. Ng1f3 Kf7g8 5. c4 d5 6. c5 Bc8xf5 7. Bf1d3 e6 8. Qd1e2 Qd8e8 9. Bc1g5 Bf5xd3 10. Qe2xd3 b6 11. b4 a5 12. bxa5 bxc5 13. dxc5 Nf6e4 14. Bg5e3 Ra8xa5 15. Nb1d2 Ne4xc5 16. Be3xc5 Ra5xc5 17. O-O Nb8c6 18. Rf1e1 Nc6b4 19. Qd3b3 Nb4c2 20. Ra1c1 Nc2xe1 21. Rc1xe1 Rc5b5 22. Qb3a4 Rb5b8 23. Qa4g4 h5 24. Qg4h3 Rh8h6 25. Nf3g5 Rb8b2 26. Qh3d3 Bf8b4 27. Re1xe6 Rh6xe6 28. Qd3h7 Kg8f8 29. Qh7f5 Re6f6 30. Ng5h7 Kf8g8 31. Nh7xf6 gxf6 32. Nd2f3 Qe8f7 33. g3 Rb2xa2 34. Qf5b1 Ra2a4 35. Qb1b3 Qf7d7 36. Kg1g2 c5 37. Qb3c2 Ra4a3 38. Qc2g6 Qd7g7 39. Qg6e8 Qg7f8 40. Qe8g6 Qf8g7 41. Qg6e8 Kg8h7 42. Qe8xh5 Qg7h6 43.Qh5f7 Qh6g7 44.Qf7h5 Kh7g8 45.Qh5e8 Qg7f8 46.Qe8g6 Kg8h8 47.Qg6h5 Kh8g7
torten
bedlam
Joined
20 Feb '11
Moves
6387
16 Oct '11 12:52
Originally posted by tomtom232
@torten

[pgn]1. e4 f5 2. exf5 Ke8f7 3. d4 Ng8f6 4. Ng1f3 Kf7g8 5. c4 d5 6. c5 Bc8xf5 7. Bf1d3 e6 8. Qd1e2 Qd8e8 9. Bc1g5 Bf5xd3 10. Qe2xd3 b6 11. b4 a5 12. bxa5 bxc5 13. dxc5 Nf6e4 14. Bg5e3 Ra8xa5 15. Nb1d2 Ne4xc5 16. Be3xc5 Ra5xc5 17. O-O Nb8c6 18. Rf1e1 Nc6b4 19. Qd3b3 Nb4c2 20. Ra1c1 Nc2xe1 21. Rc1xe1 Rc5b5 22. Qb3a4 Rb5b8 23. Qa4g4 h5 24. Qg4h3 Rh8 ...[text shortened]... 2. Qe8xh5 Qg7h6 43.Qh5f7 Qh6g7 44.Qf7h5 Kh7g8 45.Qh5e8 Qg7f8 46.Qe8g6 Kg8h8 47.Qg6h5 Kh8g7[/pgn]
Yep,I found out later by having fritz defend the black side.Should've done that before asking here.

It's so simple...

EVENT	Open invite
SITE	http://www.timeforchess.com
DATE	2011.09.23
ROUND	?
WHITE	Trev33
BLACK	ElsaVonBrabant
WHITEELO	1723
BLACKELO	1910

Only Chess Forum

Not so 'forced draw'?