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  1. 03 May '07 06:04
    The Be3 Burn variation has been bugging me lately. However, I've found a seldom played move which I think is best. I'm not sure why I can't find any games with it.

    1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 dxe4 5. Nxe4 Nbd7 6. Nf3 h6 7. Nxf6+ Nxf6
    8. Be3 Bd6 9. Bd3 O-O!?

    The 9th move is absent from my databases but it seems completely reasonable and in fact, to me, even better than the other choices like Bd7. I suppose the h6 weakness might have deterred players, but it can't really be taken advantage of. After Qd2, just Ng4 and it seems ok for Black.

    I would greatly appreciate your help and comments here given that this is cutting edge theory.
  2. 03 May '07 06:17
    I found this game by two 2000+ players... I dont know if it helps

    [Site ""]
    [Date "2003.01.21"]
    [Round "?"]
    [White "Bekemann Uwe"]
    [Black "Friedrich Fritz"]
    [Result "1/2-1/2"]
    [ECO "C10"]

    1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 dxe4 5.Nxe4 Nbd7 6.Nf3 h6 7.Nxf6+ Nxf6 8.Be3 Bd6 9.Bd3 O-O 10.Qe2 b6 11.O-O Bb7 12.Rad1 Ng4 13.h3 Nxe3 14.Qxe3 Qf6 15.Ne5 Rad8 16.Be4 Bd5 17.c4 Bxe4 18.Qxe4 Bxe5 19.dxe5 Qg5 20.b4 a5 21.a3 Qe7 22.bxa5 1/2-1/2
  3. 03 May '07 07:36 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by exigentsky
    The Be3 Burn variation has been bugging me lately. However, I've found a seldom played move which I think is best. I'm not sure why I can't find any games with it.

    1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 dxe4 5. Nxe4 Nbd7 6. Nf3 h6 7. Nxf6+ Nxf6
    8. Be3 Bd6 9. Bd3 O-O!?

    The 9th move is absent from my databases but it seems completely reasonable and in f would greatly appreciate your help and comments here given that this is cutting edge theory.
    Black must be prepared to at least concede a draw be repitition after Qd1 .. Ng4 wont save you now

    In fact here is a quicky against Jester from the following position



    1. Bxh6 gxh6 2. Qxh6 Bc6 3. Ng5 Bf4 4. h4 a5 5. g3 Bxg3 6. fxg3 Bxh1 7. O-O-O Bf3 8. Rf1 Qxd4 9. Nxf3 Qc5 10. Qxf6 Rae8 11. Ng5 Qe3+ 12. Kb1 Qxd3 13. cxd3 Re7 14. Qxe7 c6 15. Qf6 a4 16. Qh6 Re8 17. Qh7+ Kf8 18. Qxf7

    Ok, I overplayed it towards the end but you get the idea.

    I wouldn't be castling in to that position.
  4. 03 May '07 08:57
    oops Qc1

    here is a full pgn

    1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 dxe4 5. Nxe4 Nbd7 6. Nf3 h6 7. Nxf6+
    Nxf6 8. Be3 Bd6 9. Bd3 O-O 10. Qc1 Bd7 11. Bxh6 gxh6 12. Qxh6 Bc6 13. Ng5
    Bf4 14. h4 a5 15. g3 Bxg3 16. fxg3 Bxh1 17. O-O-O Bf3 18. Rf1 Qxd4 19. Nxf3
    Qc5 20. Qxf6 Rae8 21. Ng5 Qe3+ 22. Kb1 Qxd3 23. cxd3 Re7 24. Qxe7 c6 25.
    Qf6 a4 26. Qh6 Re8 27. Qh7+ Kf8 28. Qxf7#
  5. 03 May '07 18:01 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by idioms
    Black must be prepared to at least concede a draw be repitition after Qd1 .. Ng4 wont save you now

    In fact here is a quicky against Jester from the following position

    [fen]r2q1rk1/pppb1pp1/3bpn1p/8/3P4/3BBN2/PPP2PPP/R1Q1K2R b KQ - 0 1[/fen]

    1. Bxh6 gxh6 2. Qxh6 Bc6 3. Ng5 Bf4 4. h4 a5 5. g3 Bxg3 6. fxg3 Bxh1 7. O-O-O Bf3 8. Rf1 Qxd4 9. Nxf3 Qc5 10 ...[text shortened]... rplayed it towards the end but you get the idea.

    I wouldn't be castling in to that position.
    The reason I think it is not as dangerous as it seems is Ng4 which takes care of h6 and attacks the bishop. Otherwise, without the queen and bishop battery, h6 is not really a weakness. I don't see why I can't use the same idea here.

    10. Qc1 Ng4 11. Bd2 e5! This again prevents Bxh6 because piece communication is great, even if the knight is kicked. Of course after h3, e4 is strong. After dxe5, Nxe5 and Bxh6 fails. Finally, after 0-0, Re8 or e4 seem fine for Black. I don't see h6 being a weakness that can be taken advantage of. I think most players, even extremely strong ones disregarded castling in principle but did not look at the concrete variations. But then again, maybe I'm missing something. That's why it's so important for me to get many opinions here. Keep it coming.

    BTW: Nice game!
  6. 03 May '07 18:10 / 1 edit
    I must admit that I avoid the burn but my understanding was that often black will lay Be7 because that practically forces an (eventual) exchange of pieces (usually the dark sq bishops) thus easing his life a bit. However, this is contrary to your style, why did you opt for your variation?

    Sorry, but I can offer no advice on your particular line, I'm just curious why people play the lines they do.
  7. Donation !~TONY~!
    1...c5!
    03 May '07 18:14
    How do you plan to win games playing one of the most boring variations in all of chess? You gave up the accelerated Dragon to play the Burn!? I didn't think it was possible to downgrade from the AD, but clearly, I didn't think it through long enough.
  8. 03 May '07 21:13 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by !~TONY~!
    How do you plan to win games playing one of the most boring variations in all of chess? You gave up the accelerated Dragon to play the Burn!? I didn't think it was possible to downgrade from the AD, but clearly, I didn't think it through long enough.
    I'm pretty sure Bd6 like I played is a better move. It is much more active and allows for better play down the e-file as I showed against Qc1 and Bd2. In fact, Be7 is hardly ever played in the Nd7 variation of the Burn. Strong players consider it too passive and the fact that it really leads to no plan makes it even worse.

    As for the Burn variation being boring, it depends on how you play it. For example, if Black plays Be7 and gxf6 instead of Nd7, the game becomes very dynamic/wild and often with opposite side castling. However, I'm not convinced that this is sound after analyzing a lot. Still, Morozevich plays it sometimes and I don't think it is actually bad. Now, of course, my move was Nd7 and I admit that this minimizes imbalances and tends to go towards a draw barring any significant errors from both sides. However, it isn't necessarily boring. c5, e5, and the b6 fianchetto give Black some imbalances to work with and it is still the better player's game. If White choses to castle queenside, the game can also become quite interesting. (especially if Black plays a5) Thus, I don't think your view of this opening is completely accurate. Nonetheless, I see your point and if there was an equally sound response to Nc3 that gave a more dynamic and imbalanced game, I would take it without hesitation. Unfortunately, I haven't found any other response that gives Black such a good game. This time, the highest ELO players are right, as are the engines and statistics. dxe4 is the best way to handle Bg5 if you care about the ultimate truth of the position. Almost every opening has some drawish lines and given that I'm playing Black, that's not so bad. White should be the one disappointed.

    I also think that the Burn gives Black much better play than the Accelerated Dragon when in a Maroczy bind. In the Burn, there aren't many imbalances, but Black has counterplay, as does White. In the Accelerated Dragon, White has an extremely solid setup with ideal piece placement and all the choices. Black on the other hand is stuck for counterplay and can only shift his pieces aimlessly despite the large imbalances. Playing for a6->b5 works sometimes, but not if White is careful and anticipates this idea. I've played the White side of the bind and the Black side (not to mention dozens of hours of analysis); it is not pleasant for Black. I often easily traded queens after Nd5 and with a little more massaging got a superior endgame to win without trouble or risk. This doesn't happen in the Burn and Black does quite well. Just a minor inaccuracy like Qc1 can open the game to his advantage.

    The French variations I've selected are not the sharpest (Winnawer PPV), but I think they are the soundest and most solid. They are variations that I would trust completely. think White has no tangible advantage even with best play in my variaitons (Nf6 vs Nc3, c5 vs Nd2, c5 vs e5, Bd6 in the French exchange). Some may seem drawish, but I would rather have a drawish opening with decent play than an unbalanced unsound one. My ideal opening is still in the air, but I want complete reliability and solidity while still with good winning chances. Both the French and the Najdorf (possiblye5 and other Sicilians too) offer that. Now follows the meticulous process of finding my most suitable defense.

    BTW: I beat a 2000 player in Blitz with the Burn and I'm rated only about 1700. It easily leads to a Black advantage if White overestimates his chances. The same is true in the Caro-Kann which is boring only so long as White knows all of Black's counterplay levers.
  9. 03 May '07 21:43
    Originally posted by exigentsky
    I'm pretty sure Bd6 like I played is a better move. It is much more active and allows for better play down the e-file as I showed against Qc1 and Bd2. In fact, Be7 is hardly ever played in the Nd7 variation of the Burn. Strong players consider it too passive and the fact that it really leads to no plan makes it even worse.

    As for the Burn variation bei ...[text shortened]... nn which is boring only so long as White knows all of Black's counterplay levers.
    Burned!

    Sorry I had to be the first jerk to say that.