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  1. 24 Jan '07 02:50
    what is the fastest way to place your opponent into an opposition checkmate with only your king and rook for position purposes lets say his king is on d5 your king is on a1 and your rook is on h1 it your move. I have not been able to do it in the remaining moves aloted please help
  2. 24 Jan '07 02:56
    Originally posted by DestinyRestored
    what is the fastest way to place your opponent into an opposition checkmate with only your king and rook for position purposes lets say his king is on d5 your king is on a1 and your rook is on h1 it your move. I have not been able to do it in the remaining moves aloted please help
    With Rook and King vs King, this is what you do:

    1.Make a fence, so if his king is on d5 -> 5 row, Put your rook on the 4th row. His king can't cross over that "fence". Now his king is restricted to 5-8 row.

    2.Move your king in closer. Ever change you get to take another row, take it with the rook and keep moving the fence up. You are greedy and you want a big yard.

    3. Checkmate him.

    Here's a link for you for a visual:

    http://www.princeton.edu/~jedwards/cif/intro.html


    Checkout the rest of the site also.

    RK
  3. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    24 Jan '07 03:10 / 1 edit
    From the position you specified, it took me a few seconds and 17 moves to finish against Fritz. Fritz, however, found a quicker checkmate beginning with an improvement at move 8 (in brackets).



    Wulebgr - Fritz 9
    23.01.2007
    [Fritz 9 (5s)]

    1.Re1 Kc4 #14/1 0 2.Kb2 Kd4 #13/1 0 3.Kc2 Kc5 #12/1 0 4.Kc3 Kd5 #12/1 0 5.Re2 Kc6 #10/1 0 6.Kc4 Kd6 #10/1 0 7.Re3 Kc6 #8/1 0 8.Re6+ [8.Rd3 Kb6 9.Rd6+ Kc7 10.Kc5 Kb7 11.Rc6 Ka7 12.Rc7+ Ka8 13.Kb5 Kb8 14.Kb6 Ka8 15.Rc8#] 8...Kd7 #10/1 0 9.Kd5 Kc7 #9/1 0 10.Kc5 Kd7 #8/1 0 11.Re5 Kc7 #7/1 0 12.Re7+ Kd8 #6/1 0 13.Kd6 Kc8 #5/1 0 14.Kc6 Kb8 #4/1 0 15.Re8+ Ka7 #3/1 0 16.Rd8 Ka6 #2/1 0 17.Ra8# 1-0
  4. 24 Jan '07 03:36
    how do you prevent them from dillydallying back and forth though
  5. 24 Jan '07 03:55
    Originally posted by DestinyRestored
    how do you prevent them from dillydallying back and forth though
    The rook.

    You and your neighbour share the yard. The yard is 8 x 8 = 64 squares.

    Everyone is greed so you want the bigger yard.

    The rook is your fence post.

    If his king is on d5- 5th row, put your rook on the 4th row. Now he had 32 squares, etc...

    Say his king is d5, your rook is on f1, put the rook on f4, now he had from a5-e5-a8-e8. It's like a rectangle and then keep closing in the yard.
  6. 24 Jan '07 03:56 / 3 edits


    When the king are directly across from each other, opposition and it's you move you put your rook on h5+ and it forces! his king back.

    Use that too, if he keeps dilly dadling.
  7. 24 Jan '07 04:06
    Originally posted by DestinyRestored
    how do you prevent them from dillydallying back and forth though
    Each row force back is like a mini opposition checkmate.

    He is on d5, your rook moves to h4, staying on row 4 until you can push him back.

    Manuver your king in front of him. If he is on d5, you want d3 (although you want to be on d3 while it is your turn).

    Of course he is a moving target and will make one move per turn. If he backs up to row 6, no problem.

    Really, if he is on d5, you probably need to be on c3 on your turn. He will move to either c5, or e5. If he moves to c5, you move Rh5 and push him back one more row. If he moves to e5, you go to d3. He will either keep moving toward your rook, or at some point turn around. When you are on d3 if he moves back to d5, then Rh5 forces him to row 6. If he keeps going toward your rook, you keep chasing with your king.

    The problem many beginners get into is when the king gets so close to the rook that the rook is attacked by the king. In that case you just cross all the way to a4 (Ra4). The king cannot follow without opposing your king. You either keep chasing his king after that (if he keeps moving away from your king), or you reach an appropriate opposition.

    One more pitfall.

    You want the opposition to occur at the end of your opponents move.

    If you are on f3 when he is on g5 (rook on a4), when it is your move DO NOT play Kg3. He can then play Kf5 and move all the way toward your rook again. Instead, waste a move with your rook (e.g. Ra4-b4), now he has to move likely giving you the opposition. If he plays Kh5 then you play Kg3 and he will definitely give you the opposition then.

    Never move your king into opposition, always manuver so that he has to move his king into opposition, wasting a rook move if necessary to make him move.

    I am sure the long game sequence entered before illustrates all this, although I didn't actually step through it.

    The process is really simple, in spite of the fact that it needs many words to describe. Step through the move sequence that was posted after reading this and a light will come on.
  8. 24 Jan '07 04:11
    Here, best one ever:

    http://www.chesskids.com/level2/cl5l7.htm
  9. 24 Jan '07 04:18
    so what happens if it is the oppositions move, and he is not in check, but you have forced him into a position where he has no legal moves he can make. Is that then a stalemate? when you have a king and a rook vs his king this is a very real possibility toward the end of opposition how can this be avoided?
  10. 24 Jan '07 04:29
    Originally posted by DestinyRestored
    so what happens if it is the oppositions move, and he is not in check, but you have forced him into a position where he has no legal moves he can make. Is that then a stalemate? when you have a king and a rook vs his king this is a very real possibility toward the end of opposition how can this be avoided?
    yes it's stalemate. You have to be careful when you close him in to much.

    What you do is make a king move or rook move which basically doesn't do anything just a waiting move.

    Like if you rook is on e7, you can move him to f7. It doesn't do anything but it's a waiting move.
  11. 24 Jan '07 06:18
    Originally posted by RahimK
    yes it's stalemate. You have to be careful when you close him in to much.
    You know when I was around 10 I had a computer program that declared stalemate as checkmate. Looking back I can't imagine how stupid someone would have to be to program an entire engine and then not get one of the basic rules of the game right.

    Anyway for a while I thought stalemates were just really pretty checkmates.
  12. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    24 Jan '07 16:09
    Originally posted by Ramiri15
    You know when I was around 10 I had a computer program that declared stalemate as checkmate. Looking back I can't imagine how stupid someone would have to be to program an entire engine and then not get one of the basic rules of the game right.

    Anyway for a while I thought stalemates were just really pretty checkmates.
    In ancient times, stalemate was a sort of checkmate (not that unsuccessful software developers would know that).

    In the 1980s, computers were only beginning to play a reasonable game of chess, and there were many laughable moments in the play of the best programs, including failure to recognize stalemate and terrible endgame play.

    I've had several cheap and free chess programs (Ziggarut that came with Windows 3.1, for example) that would fail in entertaining ways near checkamate and stalemate (kings changing color seemed to be Ziggarut's favorite).
  13. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    24 Jan '07 17:52 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by techsouth
    You want the opposition to occur at the end of your opponents move.

    This is the reverse of the definition of opposition. It should be at the end of your move.

    If you are on f3 when he is on g5 (rook on a4), when it is your move DO NOT play Kg3. He can then play Kf5 and move all the way toward your rook again. Instead, waste a move with your rook (e.g. Ra4-b4), now he has to move likely giving you the opposition. If he plays Kh5 then you play Kg3 and he will definitely give you the opposition then.

    Never move your king into opposition, always manuver so that he has to move his king into opposition, wasting a rook move if necessary to make him move.


    More misleading advice.

    Rather, keep your king on the same row as your opponent's king until he/she is on the edge of the board. Then, keep your king on the adjacent file.

    Read Capablanca, Chess Fundamentals for this and other elementary checkmates.

    From the hardest position, checkmate an be forced in 16 moves, according to Muller and Lamprecht, Fundamental Chess Endings.


    white to move. mate in 16.


    I am sure the long game sequence entered before illustrates all this, although I didn't actually step through it.

    It does.
  14. 24 Jan '07 18:30 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Wulebgr
    In ancient times, stalemate was a sort of checkmate (not that unsuccessful software developers would know that).

    In the 1980s, computers were only beginning to play a reasonable game of chess, and there were many laughable moments in the play of the best programs, including failure to recognize stalemate and terrible endgame play.

    I've had several chea ...[text shortened]... ng ways near checkamate and stalemate (kings changing color seemed to be Ziggarut's favorite).
    If I remember correctly the default difficulty setting on the engine was something like 20 moves in advance (although you could change it to see up to 100 moves or something). Quite a pretentious program really .
  15. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    25 Jan '07 13:19
    Originally posted by Ramiri15
    If I remember correctly the default difficulty setting on the engine was something like 20 moves in advance (although you could change it to see up to 100 moves or something). Quite a pretentious program really .
    Fritz 10 does not see 20 moves in advance, except in certain forcing lines with relatively few pieces. In some endgames it can see 99 moves deep in fractions of a second, but in typical middlegame positions, it runs at 16 plys (8 moves).

    If the programmers thought otherwise, perhaps they did not understand the rules regarding stalemate.