Opposition

Originally posted by RahimK
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "New game"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "k7/8/8/8/8/8/8/K7 w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "33"]

{Taking the opposition.} 1. Ka2 ({Taking the Direct Approach Fails.} 1. Kb2 Kb8
2. Kc3 Kc7 3. Kd4 Kd6 4. Ke4 Ke6) 1... Kb8 2. Kb2 (2. Kb3 $2 Kb7) 2... Kc8 3.
Kc2 Kd8 4. Kd2 Ke8 5 ...[text shortened]... 6. Kh7 Kf7 17. Kh8 {
That is how you grab opposition and outflank.} 1/2-1/2

Would you mind posting an example with pawns on the board where White outflanks and wins?

Originally posted by 93confirmed
Would you mind posting an example with pawns on the board where White outflanks and wins?

Sorry, I don't have one of those.

I have seen it in action though and in some other books i've read before. If I come across one, I'll post it.

RK

Originally posted by Mad Rook
OK, I understand now, it makes sense. It's basically a 2-step procedure where you first move horizontally over to the optimum position while maintaining opposition. Then step 2 is staircasing straight up the board, giving up the opposition when necessary. Actually, I'm familiar with this staircasing procedure, since I was doing that when I practiced escorti ...[text shortened]... thing I learned here was realizing that there are two separate steps involved. Thanks, Rahim!

It's called outflanking. Make going forward progress by putting a file between your opponents king and your own. Then when your opponent moves towards you, you can make sure you have the opposition (by placing an odd number of squares between them).

D

Originally posted by Ragnorak
It's called outflanking.D

Great! I knew how to do it, I just didn't know the name of the maneuver. Thanks for the terminology!

Originally posted by RahimK
Sorry, I don't have one of those.

I have seen it in action though and in some other books i've read before. If I come across one, I'll post it.

RK

Why not just make one up?
White to move...


D

Or this is probably a clearer example.
White to move


D

Originally posted by Ragnorak
Or this is probably a clearer example.
White to move
[fen]1k6/8/8/8/8/8/1P6/1K6 w - - 0 1[/fen]

D

One example I can think of:

1. Kc2 Kb7 2. Kb3 Kb6 3. Kb4 Kc6 4. Ka5 Kb7 5. Kb5 Kc7 6. Ka6 Kb8 7. Kb6 Kc8 8. Ka7 Kc7 9. b4

Originally posted by lausey
One example I can think of:

1. Kc2 Kb7 2. Kb3 Kb6 3. Kb4 Kc6 4. Ka5 Kb7 5. Kb5 Kc7 6. Ka6 Kb8 7. Kb6 Kc8 8. Ka7 Kc7 9. b4

It can still be drawn from the end of that line. Fancy finishing it off.

Also, black played sub optimal moves (easily giving white the opposition). Also Ka7 is going too far without the pawn. You can easily give up the opposition and then retake it, by using the tempo of moving the pawn.

D

Originally posted by 93confirmed
Would you mind posting an example with pawns on the board where White outflanks and wins?

white to move and win

Originally posted by Ragnorak
It can still be drawn from the end of that line. Fancy finishing it off.

Also, black played sub optimal moves (easily giving white the opposition). Also Ka7 is going too far without the pawn. You can easily give up the opposition and then retake it, by using the tempo of moving the pawn.

D

Yes, see your point. My finished off last line which isn't very efficient:

1. Kc2 Kb7 2. Kb3 Kb6 3. Kb4 Kc6 4. Ka5 Kb7 5. Kb5 Kc7 6. Ka6 Kb8 7. Kb6 Kc8 8. Ka7 Kc7 9. b4 Kc6 10. Ka6 Kc7 11. b5 Kb8 12. Kb6 Ka8 13. Kc7 Ka7 14. b6+ Ka8 15. b7+ Ka7 16. b8=Q+

A revised line:

1. Kc2 Kb7 2. Kb3 Kb6 3. Kb4 Kc6 4. Ka5 Kb7 5. Kb5 Kc7 6. Ka6 Kb8 7. Kb6 Kc8 8. b4 Kb8 9. b5 Kc8 10. Ka7 Kc7 11. b6+ Kc8 12. b7+ Kc7 13. b8=Q+

Originally posted by Wulebgr
white to move and win

[fen]8/8/4k3/1p5p/1P5P/4K3/8/8 w - - 0 1[/fen]

Ke4 for the win?

Originally posted by Ragnorak
It can still be drawn from the end of that line. Fancy finishing it off.

Sorry, Ragnorak, I can't see any way for black to draw from the end of lausey's original line. Everything I try results in a win for white. (Although I don't have my tablebases installed, so I can't verify it.)

Could you show me you drawing line for black?

Originally posted by Mad Rook
Sorry, Ragnorak, I can't see any way for black to draw from the end of lausey's original line. Everything I try results in a win for white. (Although I don't have my tablebases installed, so I can't verify it.)

Could you show me you drawing line for black?

Here is one line I have found:

1. Kc2 Kb7 2. Kb3 Kb6 3. Kb4 Kc6 4. Ka5 Kb7 5. Kb5 Kc7 6. Ka6 Kb8 7. Kb6 Kc8 8. Ka7 Kc7 9. b4 Kc6 10. Ka6 Kc7 11. b5 Kb8 12. b6 {bad move and draws from here} Ka8 13. b7+ (13. Kb5 Kb7 14. Kc5 Kb8 15. Kc6 Kc8 16. b7+ Kb8 17. Kb6) ..Kb8 14. Kb6 {stalemate}

I believe we had this before, but it fits well into the 'opposition' theme, i.e. the generalisation of opposition, where terms are used like 'sister squares', 'heterodox oppposition', 'poles', primary domains' etc... Here is an example, a position from the game Lasker - Reichelm, 1901.



White plays and wins.

As a starter, the pole squares are 'b5' and 'g5', the only squares via which white can hope to penetrate.

Originally posted by 93confirmed
Ke4 for the win?

And then?

D