Pleasing positional sacrifice

~~robbie carrobie~~

Only Chess

26 Sep '12 23:03

~~robbie carrobie~~

Joined: 26 Aug '07
Moves: 38239

26 Sep '12 23:032 edits

Game features a nice positional rook sacrifice in the endgame, quite a mellow game,
no real fireworks, but some little tactics and rook sacrifice. Its best to invert the
board so that the annotations make sense - regards Robbie.

unity36 v robbie carrobie

Invert Board PGN Headers Comments

[Event "Clan challenge"] [Site "http://www.timeforchess.com"] [Date "2012.09.21"] [Round "-"] [White "unity36"] [Black "robbie carrobie"] [Result "0-1"] [BlackElo "1647"] [WhiteElo "1639"] [BlackRating "1647"] [EndDate "2012.09.26"] [WhiteRating "1639"]  1.e4 c5 2.c3 {hmmm, never faced this variation before} Nf6 3.e5 Nd5 4.d4 cxd4 5.cxd4 e6 6.Nc3 Nxc3 {I take the knight to try to create a potentially backward pawn on the soon to be half open c file after ...d5 and if white takes en passent, there will be two hanging pawns which may prove to be a strength or a weakness, who can say at this stage.} 7.bxc3 Qc7 8.Qb3 d5 9.Bb5+ Bd7 10.Bxd7+ Nxd7 11.Nf3 Be7 12.O-O O-O 13.Qc2 Rac8 14.Bd2 f5 {again not afraid of the pawn taking en passent as black bishop will get more scope on f6} 15.a4 Nb6 {heading for the natural outpost at c4} 16.Rfc1 Nc4 17.Be1 Qa5 18.Qb3 Qa6 19.Qb5 Rc6 20.Nd2 Na3 21.Qb3 Rb6 22.Qd1 Rc8 23.Nb1 Nc4 24.Qd3 Na5 25.Qxa6 Rxa6 26.Nd2 Bg5 27.Rc2 Bxd2 28.Bxd2 {and here is a little tactic, can you see it?} Nb3 29.Ra3 Nxd4 {and this was our litle tactic, had the rook gone to a2, we would have won the c pawn after NxB} 30.Rb2 Nc6 31.f4 Na5 32.Raa2 Rc7 33.Kf2 Nc4 34.Rb3 Nxd2 {giving up an active knight for a passive bishop a la Fischer} 35.Rxd2 {and winning a pawn} Rxa4 36.g3 Rac4 37.Rd3 a5 38.Ke2 a4 39.Ra3 b5 40.h3 h5 41.Kf3 g6 42.h4 Kf7 43.Ke2 Ke7 44.Kd2 Kd7 45.Ke2 Kc6 46.Kd2 Kb6 47.Ra1 Ka5 48.Ra3 Rd7 {it is obvious that to get the two passed pawns going, the c pawn shall need to be liquidated, how to do it? advance the d pawn!} 49.Ke2 d4 {both Rxd4 and pxd4 is good for black} 50.Kf3 {and here I envisioned my positional rook sacrifice, taking the chance that three passers and a King was better than a rook and King, although it was unclear, but intuition is like that.} Rxc3 51.Raxc3 dxc3 52.Rxd7 Kb4 {look at that, which will prove stronger?} 53.Ke2 Kb3 54.Kd1 {the decisive mistake, after ...Kb2, the pawns are too fast for the old rook} Kb2 55.Rc7 a3 56.Rc5 b4 57.Rc4 b3 58.Ke2 a2 59.Kd3 {and white resigned, a thoroughly enjoyable positional game which made up for my horrendous effort with the white pieces, losing badly.}   0-1

tomtom232
Joined
15 Jun '06
Moves
16334
26 Sep '12 23:205 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Game features a nice positional rook sacrifice in the endgame, quite a mellow game,
no real fireworks, but some little tactics and rook sacrifice. Its best to invert the
board so that the annotations make sense - regards Robbie.

unity36 v robbie carrobie
[pgn][Event "Clan challenge"] [Site "http://www.timeforchess.com"] [Date "2012.09.21"] [ r my horrendous effort with the white pieces, losing badly.} 0-1[/pgn]
Not a positional sac. It is well known that a R+K can't stop a K+3p that far advanced with the King in front of the pawns.

This was you trying to be artistic but I think it spoiled the rest of the very well played game. Better was the simple dxc which you're whole play seemed aiming towards.... there is no beauty in an abrubt switch of ideas.

Sorry buddy but its the truth. Sometimes there is beauty in simplicity.

I think the most beautiful thing in this game was your gallant knight.
~~robbie carrobie~~
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26 Sep '12 23:311 edit
Originally posted by tomtom232
Not a positional sac. It is well known that a R+K can't stop a K+3p that far advanced with the King in front of the pawns.

This was you trying to be artistic but I think it spoiled the rest of the very well played game. Better was the simple dxc which you're whole play seemed aiming towards.... there is no beauty in an abrubt switch of ideas.

Sorry b ...[text shortened]... eauty in simplicity.

I think the most beautiful thing in this game was your gallant knight.
dxc is lame! 😛
RJHinds
The Near Genius
Fort Gordon
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27 Sep '12 05:07
Originally posted by robbie carrobie
dxc is lame! 😛
I agree. I like your rook sac better. I guess it is just a matter of taste as to how one goes about winning. Good game. I can't believe that is your game.
~~robbie carrobie~~
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27 Sep '12 08:391 edit
Originally posted by RJHinds
I agree. I like your rook sac better. I guess it is just a matter of taste as to how one goes about winning. Good game. I can't believe that is your game.
I can't believe that is your game - RJH

LOL, I find such a statement hilarious Ronald my friend considering you believe all sorts of crazeeee other stuff, ironic really 😀

chess arteeest baby, chess arteeest!
Fat Lady
Joined
21 Feb '06
Moves
6830
27 Sep '12 10:13
It's a very interesting position. I looked at the sac without an engine first and after studying it for ten minutes decided that it looked drawn with best play. Then I turned the engine on and it found a nice winning line for Black which involved saccing the c-pawn rather than playing Kb4. Unfortunately I don't have any chess software at work but I'll post the line tonight if no-one does it before me. It was something like:
52. ... c2!
53. Rc7 b4
54. Rxc2 b3
and Black's queenside pawns get through.
~~robbie carrobie~~
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27 Sep '12 10:42
Originally posted by Fat Lady
It's a very interesting position. I looked at the sac without an engine first and after studying it for ten minutes decided that it looked drawn with best play. Then I turned the engine on and it found a nice winning line for Black which involved saccing the c-pawn rather than playing Kb4. Unfortunately I don't have any chess software at work but I'll post ...[text shortened]... ething like:
52. ... c2!
53. Rc7 b4
54. Rxc2 b3
and Black's queenside pawns get through.
sacking the c pawn, wow, none of these things occurred to me during the game fatlady,
not tomos dxc and not your sacking the c pawn, its a thinking deficiency and playing
too fast on my part, please provide the variations its really quite interesting to be
honest, if the game could be drawn I would be amazed.
greenpawn34
e4
Joined
06 May '08
Moves
42492
27 Sep '12 14:502 edits
Hi Robbie.

Was wondering why all the chat was about endings.

Had to wait a long time to see it. Not a postional sac I'm afraid.
These are middle games tricks when the end cannot possibly be calcualted
(as oppossed to a tactical sac).
Yours is more of a 'let's make things difficult for myself type of sac'.
Don't worry mate, played a few of those in my time.

Could supply 100's of examples but as the last blog is still fresh in mind
here is an opening pos-sac.
The first game in the last blog there is a pos-sac in theory in that line.

Invert Board PGN Comments

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Bb4 6. e5 Nd5 7. Qg4 O-O 8. Bh6 g6 9. Bxf8 Qxf8 {That's a pos-sac of the exchange to buy back the initaitive. The minor flurry around c3 soon petters out. (unless White comes up with a sound way of saccing the a1 Rook for the dark squared Bishop. Memory cells say this has happened.)}

Had wry smile at the note after move 15...Nb6

'heading for the natural outpost at c4'

Had that set up dozens of times. Not the exact position but the bones are there.
They all go for Nc4. Moths to a flame.
Once it get's there it does sod all but block my bait on c3.
In your game you had to re-deploy the Knight to get it going again.

White's plan of holding c3 was doomed to failure.
Look at his position after move 23.

.
Yuk!

Back here:

His centre pawns told him to get rid of his Bishop. So 14.Bg5 was the move.
Then hold c3 tactically letting it go at the right moment.
Had loads of games with this line. Won some lost some, draw some.

14...f5

Not too sure about this one. exf6 and he now has a weak pawn on an opening file.

Here is a game I posted on here October last year.
The notes are the original - I've not tampered with them. Thread 142331
My comments about Knights heading for c4 and weak pawns on e6 are there.
(you also commented on the game in the thread) 😉

G.C. - M.Ridge Edinburgh Lothians 2011

Invert Board PGN Comments

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. Bb5+ Bd7 4. Bxd7+ Qxd7 {Best saving the b8 Knight for c6.} 5. O-O Nc6 6. c3 Nf6 7. Re1 e6 8. d4 cxd4 9. cxd4 d5 10. e5 Ne4 {Now the are 1,000's of games with 11.Nd2 But I have always liked....} 11. Nc3 {Some blitz games from here have Black playing 11...Bb4 12.Nxe4 Bxe1 13.Nc5 with good White stuff.} 11... Nxc3 12. bxc3 {Backward pawn on the open file - phooey, I'll worry about that when the endgame comes. I've had this a few times OTB. The plan is they become transfixed with the weak c-pawn whilst I cook up nonsense on the kingside.} 12... Be7 13. Bg5 O-O 14. Qd3 Na5 {They head for c4 with a Knight they always do that.} 15. h4 Nc4 16. Bxe7 Qxe7 17. Ng5 g6 18. Rab1 b6 19. Qg3 f6 {Good for me - bad for him. One backward pawn on an open file each.} 20. exf6 Rxf6 21. Re2 Re8 22. Rbe1 Qd7 23. Qh3 Nd6 24. Re5 {The cheapo merchant inside of me surfaces. Threat Rxd5.} 24... Nf5 25. g4 Ng7 26. Qe3 h6 27. Nh3 Kh7 28. g5 Nf5 {I of course toyed with idea of saccing the Queen with 29.gxf6 but could not see any really good follow up. I think OTB it is a good sac but I felt I need not do anything daft just yet - that comes later..} 29. Qf4 Rff8 30. gxh6 Nxh6 31. Ng5+ Kg7 {Games was about an hour old now. I was feeling just a tad tired. Suddenly someone starts talking to asking me why I am playing. I ignore him. He nudges me and carries on talking. I gnore him he goes away. I play...} 32. Qh2 {A Howler. I was only looking at Black playing 32...Nf5. The moment I played it I could see Black's next move. I turned around to see who was bothering me. It was the same lad who spoke to me during the Berry game!} 32... Ng4 {Of course.} 33. Qg3 Nxe5 34. Qxe5+ Kh6 35. Nxe6 {Now 35...Rf5 is good for him but sometimes when you been under pressure you cannot adjust to play for a win.} 35... Rxe6 36. Qxe6 Qxe6 37. Rxe6 Rc8 {Now it's time to worry about the backward pawn. He offered a draw. I accepted. I asked the other lad not to speak to me again if I'm playing a game...Chess Players...I forgive him.}
RJHinds
The Near Genius
Fort Gordon
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27 Sep '12 16:30
Originally posted by robbie carrobie
sacking the c pawn, wow, none of these things occurred to me during the game fatlady,
not tomos dxc and not your sacking the c pawn, its a thinking deficiency and playing
too fast on my part, please provide the variations its really quite interesting to be
honest, if the game could be drawn I would be amazed.
Fat Lady has a point for after 53...Kb3 54. Rb7! b4 55. Kd1 the Black king is forced to c4 to avoid checkmate.

However, 53,,,Ka3! still wins, because if 54. Rb7, b4 55. Kd1 b3 56. Kc1 Ka2 57. Rb4 a3 58. Rb6 b2+ 59. kc2 Ka1 and the b-pawn queens with 60...a2 61...b1(Q).
Fat Lady
Joined
21 Feb '06
Moves
6830
27 Sep '12 20:58
There are a couple of nice lines where White wins if Black pushed too hard.
e.g.
FEN 8/3r4/4p1p1/kp2Pp1p/p4P1P/2pR1KP1/8/8 w - - 0 1
Invert Board PGN Headers Comments

[FEN "8/3r4/4p1p1/kp2Pp1p/p4P1P/2pR1KP1/8/8 w - - 0 1"]
{--------------
. . . . . . . .
. . . r . . . .
. . . . p . p .
k p . . P p . p
p . . . . P . P
. . p R . K P .
. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . .
white to play
--------------}
1. Rxd7 Kb4 2. Ke2 Kb3 3. Rb7 b4 4. Kd1 a3 5. Kc1 a2 6. Ra7 c2 7. Ra8

and

FEN 8/3r4/4p1p1/kp2Pp1p/p4P1P/2pR1KP1/8/8 w - - 0 1
Invert Board PGN Headers Comments

[FEN "8/3r4/4p1p1/kp2Pp1p/p4P1P/2pR1KP1/8/8 w - - 0 1"]
{--------------
. . . . . . . .
. . . r . . . .
. . . . p . p .
k p . . P p . p
p . . . . P . P
. . p R . K P .
. . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . .
white to play
--------------}
1. Rxd7 Kb4 2. Ke2 Kb3 3. Rb7 b4 4. Kd1 a3 5. Kc1 c2 6. Rb6 a2 7. Ra6 Kc3
8. Rxa2 b3 9. Ra3 Kb4 10. Ra6 Kc3 11. Rc6+ Kd4 12. Rxe6
~~Duchess64~~
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27 Sep '12 21:20
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~~robbie carrobie~~
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27 Sep '12 22:094 edits
The post that was quoted here has been removed
my dear Duchess64, you are absolutely correct I had not calculated deeply enough
and made my decision purely on instinct (with a little calculation) After fatladys lines
I shudder to think what could have happened had my opponent played the best
lines. After a little reflection I simply chose the line that seemed the most forcing
and aesthetically pleasing. I still don't understand why it is not to be considered a
positional sacrifice, surely sacrificing material for something like a past pawn is a
positional sacrifice in every sense, at least it seems that way to me. The main thing
that I should be concerned about are these things that you mention, sacrificing
when its unnecessary, or not calculating in depth and other thinking deficiencies as
mentioned by GP and Tomo and which the lines posted by fatlady illustrate and yet
the romantic within me cries out for duelling with French foils at dawn for some
slight on a ladies honour, oh hopeless romantic who can help you with your
delusions?
Linden Lyons
Joined
12 Aug '09
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28 Sep '12 02:07
Hi Greenpawn. I enjoy reading your posts, and I was pleased to find out about the Sicilian Pin Variation. I'd lost interest in the Sicilian, but this variation resembles the type of play I enjoy in the Nimzo-Indian or, sometimes, in Owen's Defence: a pin of white's QN with black's KN adding pressure. I'd be interested to see a couple of sample games with this pattern, be it the Sicilian or another opening. Thanks!
ChessPraxis
Cowboy From Hell
American West
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28 Sep '12 03:09
Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Game features a nice positional rook sacrifice in the endgame, quite a mellow game,
no real fireworks, but some little tactics and rook sacrifice. Its best to invert the
board so that the annotations make sense - regards Robbie.

unity36 v robbie carrobie
[pgn][Event "Clan challenge"] [Site "http://www.timeforchess.com"] [Date "2012.09.21"] [ ...[text shortened]... r my horrendous effort with the white pieces, losing badly.} 0-1[/pgn]
I liked it, although as Tom said...
But you found an idea and went with it and made it work, that's good chess IMO.
~~robbie carrobie~~
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28 Sep '12 07:31
Originally posted by ChessPraxis
I liked it, although as Tom said...
But you found an idea and went with it and made it work, that's good chess IMO.
thanks CP, I really do appreciate the comments, its so easy to get discouraged.

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Pleasing positional sacrifice