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  1. 21 May '09 14:00 / 2 edits
    The most UGLY win in history!

    I was completely outmatched by my opponent the entire time. Please also suggest solid, safe, and easy to learn defenses against the Queen's pawn opening.

  2. 21 May '09 14:10
    FYI, in this game I am black.
  3. Standard member PBE6
    Bananarama
    21 May '09 14:23 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    FYI, in this game I am black.
    Lol...YAARRRGGHH!!! What a way to find out I lost! I absolutely did not see that mate in 1 . But to say you were outmatched the entire time is overstating things quite a bit. You punished me soundly for not castling earlier after I played 7. f4 instead of 7. Nf3 which would have completed my kingside development. I tried to compensate by tucking my king away in the corner and unleashing my pieces but it was all for naught.
  4. Standard member PBE6
    Bananarama
    21 May '09 14:37
    The post that was quoted here has been removed
    Take it to the debates forum, spanky.
  5. 21 May '09 14:39
    Originally posted by PBE6
    Lol...YAARRRGGHH!!! What a way to find out I lost! I absolutely did not see that mate in 1 . But to say you were outmatched the entire time is overstating things quite a bit. You punished me soundly for not castling earlier after I played 7. f4 instead of 7. Nf3 which would have completed my kingside development. I tried to compensate by tucking my king away in the corner and unleashing my pieces but it was all for naught.
    lol! That's how you found out? You had me on the ropes. I was totally cramped, I lost all control of the center and there were threats everywhere. I thought I had a strong attack going when I checked you with the Queen, but after you moved - when I thought it through I saw no promising attacks. Your option of Nf3 (attacking my Queen) killed a lot of promising opportunities.

    I hate to win the way I did, but I'd rather have an ugly win than a pretty loss
  6. 21 May '09 15:30
    The post that was quoted here has been removed
    Every now and then I come across a post on these forums that makes me think that the person who made the post must be an utter and complete jerk. This is one of those occasions.
  7. Standard member Nowakowski
    10. O-O
    22 May '09 05:48 / 4 edits
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    The most UGLY win in history!

    I was completely outmatched by my opponent the entire time. Please also suggest solid, safe, and easy to learn defenses against the Queen's pawn opening.

    [pgn]
    [Event "Challenge"]
    [Site "http://www.redhotpawn.com"]
    [Date "2009.05.14"]
    [EndDate "2009.05.21"]
    [Round "?"]
    [White "PBE6"]
    [Black "USArmyParatr 5 Qe7d6 16. Rh1e1 Bc8g4 17. Nc3e4 Qd6b6
    18. h3 Qb6xb2 0-1

    [/pgn]
    Nf6 is flexible, and can lead to QID or KID. I personally prefer 1... e6
    with possible French or QID or Nimzo positions coming as all are very
    safe, very sound, and have positional possibilities throughout. Both
    openings leave nearly every positional black defense as possibility.

    -GIN
  8. 22 May '09 07:01
    Originally posted by Nowakowski
    Nf6 is flexible, and can lead to QID or KID. I personally prefer 1... e6
    with possible French or QID or Nimzo positions coming as all are very
    safe, very sound, and have positional possibilities throughout. Both
    openings leave nearly every positional black defense as possibility.

    -GIN
    Don't forget the catalan! And a move that can easily transpose into many openings is probably not ideal for the beginner.
  9. 22 May '09 11:07 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by PBE6
    Lol...YAARRRGGHH!!! What a way to find out I lost! I absolutely did not see that mate in 1 . But to say you were outmatched the entire time is overstating things quite a bit. You punished me soundly for not castling earlier after I played 7. f4 instead of 7. Nf3 which would have completed my kingside development. I tried to compensate by tucking my king away in the corner and unleashing my pieces but it was all for naught.
    I have to agree, actually. Black got pretty good play the way he played it. His queen got knocked around a little, but white's king was in the way, too.

    In fact, the defense black played (the Czech benoni, more or less), has a reputation for being pretty solid and is pretty simple to learn, IMO. Its also off-beat enough that a lot of players won't know how to play against it.
  10. Standard member Nowakowski
    10. O-O
    23 May '09 03:18
    Originally posted by tomtom232
    Don't forget the catalan! And a move that can easily transpose into many openings is probably not ideal for the beginner.
    A beginner should learn theory, he should learn why he moves, instead of
    memorizing how. These types of defenses promote broad understanding,
    and promote long term growth, and mastery over them gives a good player
    a very strong understanding of his games over time.

    -GIN
  11. 26 May '09 10:36
    I didn't look at the whole game but I think 3...e5 was a bad choice. You gave him a strong center and allowed him more space on your side of the board. also it weakened your d pawn. I think if 3...e6 would have been played you would've had a better chance of opening up the center. W's move of 7. f4 was a mistake. They didnt even consider the space they left behind or the avenues that they opened up for B's pieces to attack. it was the right idea i think, to attack the weak pawn structure of black but the timing and way he went about it was wrong because it allowed you too much counter play.
  12. 26 May '09 10:50
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    I was totally cramped, I lost all control of the center and there were threats everywhere.
    I see no threats. Usually black is defensive. Don't struggle when you see a force of white pawns are pushing on you.
  13. 26 May '09 11:13
    Originally posted by Nowakowski
    A beginner should learn theory, he should learn why he moves, instead of
    memorizing how. These types of defenses promote broad understanding,
    and promote long term growth, and mastery over them gives a good player
    a very strong understanding of his games over time.

    -GIN
    Yes a player should learn why he moves. I believe I am the one(or one of the people) who told you that. Learning a bunch of theory that you don't really understand is no good. First learn principles and then play the moves you think are best. Your opening will choose you not the other way around.
  14. Subscriber Marinkatomb
    wotagr8game
    26 May '09 17:46
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    The most UGLY win in history!

    I was completely outmatched by my opponent the entire time. Please also suggest solid, safe, and easy to learn defenses against the Queen's pawn opening.

    [pgn]
    [Event "Challenge"]
    [Site "http://www.redhotpawn.com"]
    [Date "2009.05.14"]
    [EndDate "2009.05.21"]
    [Round "?"]
    [White "PBE6"]
    [Black "USArmyParatr ...[text shortened]... 5 Qe7d6 16. Rh1e1 Bc8g4 17. Nc3e4 Qd6b6
    18. h3 Qb6xb2 0-1

    [/pgn]
    White could have tried 17.Be7 instead of Ne4, your mate threat comes to nothing while the knight is still on c3...
  15. 27 May '09 09:23
    Originally posted by Emashi
    I see no threats. Usually black is defensive. Don't struggle when you see a force of white pawns are pushing on you.
    Perhaps all concerned have already considered this but regards to PBE6's game: 6. ... g6 (6. ... Be7 7. a4 Nbd7 8. f4 and White is good in Van Der Strict-Kassinpoullos, 2005) is a known variant where White continued 7. Nge2 h5 resulted in a win for Black in Gromova-Leiekova, Reykjavik 2007.

    It would seem that both players handled the the beginning well. However, 7. f4 was not good though the game is by no means lost.
    After 9. Kd2 I do not see why 9. ... Qg5: followed by Qg2 and Qh1 (granted the queen could be trapped) would not be better than Qf4, Qe5 as in the game. One last...13. Ne5 Bg7 the retreat 14. Nf3 seems more than timorous. Possibly 14. g4 with Be5 15. gh5 Bc3 16. hg6 and with the threat to f7 White should enjoy some initiative...and yes Black is not compelled to capture so intemperately.