15 Jun 08
Anybody been in an ending with only a king each, and you have a rook whereas your opponent has a queen? Managed to avoid having castle forked and king still not cornered in over 40 moves. Opponent has rejected a draw. Would be interesting to know your experiences in this or a similar situation, any advice and how it ended for you.
15 Jun 08
Originally posted by ButlarioIf its in progress, I cant give any advice. However, I guess I'm allowed to say that with perfect play, its a win for the side with the queen.
Anybody been in an ending with only a king each, and you have a rook whereas your opponent has a queen? Managed to avoid having castle forked and king still not cornered in over 40 moves. Opponent has rejected a draw. Would be interesting to know your experiences in this or a similar situation, any advice and how it ended for you.
15 Jun 08
3 edits
Originally posted by clandarkfireIn progress so no comments but feel free to watch.
If its in progress, I cant give any advice. However, I guess I'm allowed to say that with perfect play, its a win for the side with the queen.
It is a win for the side with the queen but as you can see it ain't easy in Game 4839399 where we are up to 23 moves as I write this and I would not be surprised if 50 moves go by without a result whereas in an earlier win in Game 2476497 it took 22 moves and an eventual blunder from my opponent to win it for me.
15 Jun 08
Originally posted by Dragon FireJust wondering, but suppose you were playing such an endgame. How could you tell if your opponent was using endgame tablebases or not?
In progress so no comments but feel free to watch.
It is a win for the side with the queen but as you can see it ain't easy in Game 4839399 where we are up to 23 moves as I write this and I would not be surprised if 50 moves go by without a result whereas in an earlier win in Game 2476497 it took 22 moves and an eventual blunder from my opponent to win it for me.
Do the game mods have a policy for dealing with that?
15 Jun 08
In the 70's Walter Browne once lost a $50 bet he could not
win with it v a computer. All this computer 'knew' was
King & Queen v Rook & King endings.
Walter booked up, came back and won it the second time.
I've done it twice OTB (once in an allegro frinsih). But I know
my opponent made blunders. It was not my technique.
I've also lost once with it.
I've never had to mate with a Knight & Bishop (thank God).
16 Jun 08
Originally posted by Dragon Fire
In progress so no comments but feel free to watch.
whereas in an earlier win in Game 2476497 it took 22 moves and an eventual blunder from my opponent to win it for me.
Ahh yes, that was an interesting game!! 🙂
16 Jun 08
Originally posted by jockmcgeeA very valid question which applies I think to any game with 5 or less pieces plus kings (it might even be 6 pieces now).
Just wondering, but suppose you were playing such an endgame. How could you tell if your opponent was using endgame tablebases or not?
Do the game mods have a policy for dealing with that?
Obviously using an endgame TB is contary to the TOS and would result in a banning.
As a general rule you will find that human play in more complex endings is unlikely to be move perfect and if it is it is highly indicitive of TB use, for example in 2N vs P it may take 48 moves in the shortest possible line and the winning move is not always totally obvious. R vs Q is also, of course, extremely complex whereas a move perfect route to victory in 2B or B&N is highly probable (in my opinion) for a reasonably strong player. Trouble is I would expect a player rated 2300 or so to be able to mate with 2N vs P or Q v R without straying too much as there is a massive body of legitimate theory out there to use.
So you can compare play against a TB and check the match up. If it is not perfect are the missed moves not significant (ie not too many and only delay the win by a few moves so the 50 move rule doesn't matter). If this anaylsis shows a match up except where it doesn't matter does it prove anything? In certain types of endings without the body of legitimate published theory with a perfect match to the counter intuitive moves probably but in endings such as Q vs R possibly not and unfortunately those very highly rated players whom you might suspect most of all are the very people who can win these type of endings without needing to resort to TBs.
16 Jun 08
Originally posted by Dragon FireThanks for that 🙂 I wonder if you'll be doing any such analysis after your game in progress.
A very valid question which applies I think to any game with 5 or less pieces plus kings (it might even be 6 pieces now).
Obviously using an endgame TB is contary to the TOS and would result in a banning.
As a general rule you will find that human play in more complex endings is unlikely to be move perfect and if it is it is highly indicitive of TB ...[text shortened]... of all are the very people who can win these type of endings without needing to resort to TBs.
16 Jun 08
3 edits
Originally posted by jockmcgeeI analyse every game that I lose , every game that I draw that I should have won, some games that I win where I felt I erred and could have played better and every position where I decided or declined a combination / sacrifice that didn't go quite as I hoped.
Thanks for that 🙂 I wonder if you'll be doing any such analysis after your game in progress.
That analysis should be made without the aid of engines / TBs or any other tools if you hope to learn but by all means checked afterwards to see how accurate your analysis was.
I don't bother to analyse careless blunders or games in which I was deliberately "fooling around" a bit and playing moves on spec that I felt would be fun but inferior (gererally I will only do this against "weaker" opponents) nor games in which I offered draws or resigned for reasons other than what was on the board (e.g to reduce my game load).
Everyone that wants to improve should do this.
Game 4839399 has been in a TB for at least the last 40 moves and I have certainly erred as it should have been won long ago. It is again approaching a crunch position with the king forced to the back rank but winning that Rook (and the game) now is the hard bit. For this I have a very good collection of end game books by Averbach but unfortunately studying them takes a lot of time and in this particular game I have only 24 hours remaining for each move with no TB and only have 1 day a week to devote the time necessary so whilst the game is winable time might yet conspire against me and force me to concede a draw. Fortunately that day is tonight so I will be spending some hours studying my next few moves at the expense of other games.