Questions about this position in the French

Originally posted by Mad Rook
Hi Robbie,

You smoking that weed again? Your discussion isn't even based on the variation given by the OP! (He played Qb6, you apparently decided to play Bd7 instead.) 🙂

actually Maddened one, despite my pretensions, i did know that, i merely reproduced a similar position, after all we are interested in ideas, are we not. Not only was my variation superior to ...Qb6, its messes with whites head in psychologically tempting him to take the knight, and what is more, even when he tries to go with his knight to a3 and then c2 (covering d4) as in the variations provided by Paul, it is still not a good idea to exchange!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
actually Maddened one, despite my pretensions, i did know that, i merely reproduced a similar position, after all we are interested in ideas, are we not.

Well sure, ideas are good. But when I read your post, it started off by saying it was a mistake to take with the bishop. Only by reading further into the post do we discover that your idea is based on a different board position. It's sort of like giving an opinion on how good the New York Yankees are based on watching the New York Giants play a football game.

Btw, I threw a box on the OP's position, and at around 25 ply, it finally decided that taking the knight on h6 was White's best move by a *very* slight margin. It might be hard to play that line in the real world, but taking the knight doesn't appear to be an obviously inferior move.

Originally posted by Mad Rook
Well sure, ideas are good. But when I read your post, it started off by saying it was a mistake to take with the bishop. Only by reading further into the post do we discover that your idea is based on a different board position. It's sort of like giving an opinion on how good the New York Yankees are based on watching the New York Giants play a football gam ne in the real world, but taking the knight doesn't appear to be an obviously inferior move.

well i like not so much to think of the variation, as would you take an knight on h6 played with the idea of going to f5 (the same in both cases) with your queens bishop (same in both cases) early in the French (same in both cases), its based not on the variation, but on general principles (similar in both instances)

yes, because as you are no doubt aware, a computer thinks that a rim pawn is like, 0.9 of a real pawn and a doubled pawn is like, i dunno, .5 or something, so in computer terms those two rim pawns are worth like 1.4 of a pawn, but chess for humans is not that simple 🙂

i still think its a mistake to take with the bishop, for the general principles apply, in both cases.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
why sir if you weren't one of the illustrious members of that most esteemed of clans, the Morphys maniacs, id saddle my hoss and ride over there with pistols in hand and demand that you meet me at dawn , chess board in hand, for such an outrage! 🙂

No harm or insult intended, quite the contrary. We play because there is such a diversity of opinion in chess, and the board is the arbiter!

Paul

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
well i like not so much to think of the variation, as would you take an knight on h6 played with the idea of going to f5 (the same in both cases) with your queens bishop (same in both cases) early in the French (same in both cases), its based not on the variation, but on general principles (similar in both instances)

yes, because as you are no dou ...[text shortened]... ll think its a mistake to take with the bishop, for the general principles apply, in both cases.

Don't forget that the knight on h6 is only visiting there, so the exchange is not for where the knight is, but to intercept it before it arrives at a better outpost. Doing so with a bishop that is already bad is just a bonus.

Well...



Everyone is saying they won't take the Knight but nobody is saying
what they would play instead of Bxh6.

Castles? Nf5



No thank you. Black is most likely going to play g5 very soon and he
has an open g-file + a Knight on f5
He can have the open file but no Knight on f5.

Forget Knights on the rim = dim. Knights are dim on the rim if they have
no other squares they can go. Here it has f5.
It may look dim but it has a very bright future.

However after the coming g5 and the cosy Knight on f3 has no good squares
to go to.

I am not going to sit there going boss-eyed at every move looking at what
that f5 Knight can get up to. Whack it.

White is trading a non-developed piece for a developed and
potentially very dangerous Knight. Whack it.

That is what I would do anyway. Good/bad or indifferent. I don't want to play
that postion with his Knight on f5.


Edit 1:

Ha. I see Paul has just hinted at the idea that the Knight is headed for
greener pastures. (I think I say it so much better).😉

Originally posted by Paul Leggett
Don't forget that the knight on h6 is only visiting there, so the exchange is not for where the knight is, but to intercept it before it arrives at a better outpost. Doing so with a bishop that is already bad is just a bonus.

Lol, i know, i was just having some fun with the hossy thing, i am a hopeless romantic living in the past when southern belles wore long flowing dresses and gentlemen duelled it out for the honour, anyhow, its just that it has been my experience that if white can exchange blacks dark squared bishop and set up a blockade on the dark squares ending up with a good night v a poor bishop, then black has much the worse of it, and here, we are voluntarily giving up what is a very powerful piece in helping us achieve this aim, our own dark squared bishop. why? to double blacks pawns? because the knight is coming to f5? indeed black can avoid all of this controversy and play ...Ne7 like any sane French player and the night reaches f5 anyway.

Originally posted by National Master Dale
If I`m ever way over in your country and you buy me a beer...

Fat chance - he's Scots (said the Dutchman...).

As for the position, come on, just take the knight. It's a knights' position anyway, swapping your bishop for one is good.

Richard

Originally posted by Shallow Blue
Fat chance - he's Scots (said the Dutchman...).

As for the position, come on, just take the knight. It's a knights' position anyway, swapping your bishop for one is good.

Richard

actually hes an honorary Scot for he was born in England but they kicked him out and we accepted him as our own.

"I'm Nobody'd child, I'm Nobody's child
I'm like a flower, just growing wild...." :'(

Originally posted by greenpawn34
"I'm Nobody'd child, I'm Nobody's child
I'm like a flower, just growing wild...." :'(

never mind that, you should be singing, 'working for the Yankee dollar', getting weighed in by Chessville for your time 🙂

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Everyone is saying they won't take the Knight but nobody is saying
what they would play instead of Bxh6.

I've played these lines as Black for quite a while now.

Instead of Bxh6 (which is definitely not a mistake in this exact position - although that doesn't necessarily mean it leads to an advantage for White) ...


Be2-d3 looks stupid but isn't.

Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
[fen]r1b1kb1r/pp3ppp/1qn1p2n/2ppP3/3P4/2P2N2/PP2BPPP/RNBQK2R w KQkq - 5 7[/fen]

I watched a video online suggesting Nh6 to prepare Nf5.

It said capturing the knight with the bishop would be a mistake due to black's reply Qxb2. But after Nd2 black can choose to eat the c-pawn (allowing white to bring his bishop to safety), or black can capture the bishop and double his pawns.

Black shouldn't "eat" the pawn. It is made of plastic and is not digestible.

Originally posted by enrico20
Black shouldn't "eat" the pawn. It is made of plastic and is not digestible.

It's not plastic. He's playing on this set (bottom of page):

http://www.chessedinburgh.co.uk/chandlerarticle.php?ChandID=401

😛

Originally posted by JonathanB of London
I've played these lines as Black for quite a while now.

Instead of Bxh6 (which is definitely not a mistake in this exact position - although that doesn't necessarily mean it leads to an advantage for White) ...


Be2-d3 looks stupid but isn't.

Excuse my 1300s naiveté, but isn't that just asking for c5-c4? Might not be the most active move for black, but it doesn't look like it leaves white with much joy, either.

Richard