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  1. 17 Sep '10 02:08


    I watched a video online suggesting Nh6 to prepare Nf5.

    It said capturing the knight with the bishop would be a mistake due to black's reply Qxb2. But after Nd2 black can choose to eat the c-pawn (allowing white to bring his bishop to safety), or black can capture the bishop and double his pawns.

    Option 1: Black trades a knight for two pawns.

    Option 2: Black wins a pawn, trades knight for dark bishop and doubles his pawns.

    So first, do you agree that Bxh6 is a mistake for white?

    Next question, what is best for black after (let's just say) 1...Qxb2, 2 Nd2
  2. 17 Sep '10 02:51
    I don`t think taking on h6 is that great since white not only grants black the g file but also debishopifies himself.

    If I was white I woudn`t take the knight.
  3. 17 Sep '10 03:18 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by National Master Dale
    I don`t think taking on h6 is that great since white not only grants black the g file but also debishopifies himself.

    If I was white I woudn`t take the knight.
    So as black, on the follow up move you would take the bishop instead of his c-pawn?
  4. 17 Sep '10 03:38
    I agree, as white I wouldn't take the knight.

    Yup, I would definitely take the bishop on the follow up move. Why not? You're then up a pawn and I don't see any immediate problems. You can castle on the queenside and you have a nice open file for your rook. If he moves after that on the kingside, if he castles for instance, then pawn c4 is a really nice move as it stymies his white bishop and the knight on d2 and it opens up a nice diagonal for your black bishop.
  5. Standard member clandarkfire
    Grammar Nazi
    17 Sep '10 05:08
    Definitely don't take the knight. Having said that, after Qxb2, a better idea for black seems to be to give up the exchange with Be3, Qxa1 and Qc2.

    Possible follow up of cxd4, Nxd4, Nxd4 and Bxd4 leaves this position:

    Where the black queen is looking rather silly.
  6. Standard member chessicle
    The Chessicle
    17 Sep '10 06:16 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by clandarkfire
    Definitely don't take the knight. Having said that, after Qxb2, a better idea for black seems to be to give up the exchange with Be3, Qxa1 and Qc2.

    Possible follow up of cxd4, Nxd4, Nxd4 and Bxd4 leaves this position:
    [fen]r1b1kb1r/pp3ppp/4p3/3pP3/3B4/2P5/P1Q1BPPP/qN2K2R b Kkq[/fen]
    Where the black queen is looking rather silly.
    Doesn't ... Ba3 enable the Q to escape?
  7. 17 Sep '10 10:39
    "debishopifies himself."

    Gosh Dale where do you get this one from?

    Is it it possible to deknightyfy oneself?

    Am I going to hear this at tournaments.

    "I was doing OK then I dequeened myself."

    You no longer checkmate a King you dekingyfy your opponent.

  8. 17 Sep '10 11:24 / 2 edits
    I may have spelled debishopifie incorrectly.
    Maybe its debishopfy.

    If I`m ever way over in your country and you buy me a beer you will be used to me talking in a refreshed manner.

    The debishipification has begun.
  9. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    17 Sep '10 11:51 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    [fen]r1b1kb1r/pp3ppp/1qn1p2n/2ppP3/3P4/2P2N2/PP2BPPP/RNBQK2R w KQkq - 5 7[/fen]

    I watched a video online suggesting Nh6 to prepare Nf5.

    It said capturing the knight with the bishop would be a mistake due to black's reply Qxb2. But after Nd2 black can choose to eat the c-pawn (allowing white to bring his bishop to safety), or black can captur ...[text shortened]... ke for white?

    Next question, what is best for black after (let's just say) 1...Qxb2, 2 Nd2
    7. Bxh6 is the most often played and highest-scoring move in the position. White's c1 bishop is bad, and the h6 knight is about to take up an excellent position on f5, so white trades his bad bishop for the knight before it can move to f5.

    Other things equal, two bishops are a plus, but a locked center favors knights and makes one bishop bad, so white's decision is strategically sound.

    My database has white playing 15 different moves here, though, so you are spoilt for choice.

    Here's a GM Michael Adams game where he snaps off the knight:





    Paul
  10. 17 Sep '10 12:05 / 2 edits
    Hi Dale.

    I don't buy the beer.

    It's been 17 years since I bought a round in Bells. Ask Ruxton.

    Regarding the thread and the postion in question.



    Think I know what I would do.

    (Mind you I never needed much of an excuse to swap a Bishop for a Knight.)
  11. Standard member nimzo5
    Ronin
    17 Sep '10 12:58
    Ask your Bishop how he feels about the position and you will understand why that Knight is a little nervous wandering out to h6.
  12. 17 Sep '10 13:50 / 3 edits
    i think its a mistake to take with the bishop, what does white get for the trade? he
    gets rid of a so called 'bad bishop'? who is to say that the centre will shall remain
    solvent? black will play in usual French fashion, ...c5 and ...e6, dissolving the centre
    and he will dominate the dark squares. Even after black takes with the g pawn, its not
    so easy for white to find a good move


    black to play

    black shall play ...f6 forcing white to do something in the centre, if white takes with the
    e pawn, black can retake with the queen and the gang up on d4 is very efficient.

    Again another reason to wait with the queen, playing the brilliant ...Bd7 instead
  13. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    17 Sep '10 14:30
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    i think its a mistake to take with the bishop, what does white get for the trade? he
    gets rid of a so called 'bad bishop'? who is to say that the centre will shall remain
    solvent? black will play in usual French fashion, ...c5 and ...e6, dissolving the centre
    and he will dominate the dark squares. Even after black takes with the g pawn, it ...[text shortened]... fficient.

    Again another reason to wait with the queen, playing the brilliant ...Bd7 instead
    And that is why we play the game!
  14. 17 Sep '10 14:43
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    i think its a mistake to take with the bishop, what does white get for the trade? he
    gets rid of a so called 'bad bishop'? who is to say that the centre will shall remain
    solvent? black will play in usual French fashion, ...c5 and ...e6, dissolving the centre
    and he will dominate the dark squares. Even after black takes with the g pawn, it ...[text shortened]... fficient.

    Again another reason to wait with the queen, playing the brilliant ...Bd7 instead
    Hi Robbie,

    You smoking that weed again? Your discussion isn't even based on the variation given by the OP! (He played Qb6, you apparently decided to play Bd7 instead.)
  15. 17 Sep '10 14:46
    Originally posted by Paul Leggett
    And that is why we play the game!
    why sir if you weren't one of the illustrious members of that most esteemed of clans, the Morphys maniacs, id saddle my hoss and ride over there with pistols in hand and demand that you meet me at dawn , chess board in hand, for such an outrage!