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  1. 20 Dec '05 19:53
    I've read that beginners should begin learning chess by playing the the Italian Game, and then progress to the Ruy Lopez at some point and study it for life... at any rate, I want to focus on learning the Ruy and trying to gather opinions as to the best way of going about it. there are so many variations. should i learn each one at a time or the overall themes and tactics arising from positions? any suggestions are appreciated.
  2. Standard member Santa Drummer
    I AM INNOCENT
    20 Dec '05 19:57
    Originally posted by Darth Sponge
    I've read that beginners should begin learning chess by playing the the Italian Game, and then progress to the Ruy Lopez at some point and study it for life... at any rate, I want to focus on learning the Ruy and trying to gather opinions as to the best way of going about it. there are so many variations. should i learn each one at a time or the overall themes and tactics arising from positions? any suggestions are appreciated.
    You re 1300 and you asked that....
  3. 20 Dec '05 20:02 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Darth Sponge
    I've read that beginners should begin learning chess by playing the the Italian Game, and then progress to the Ruy Lopez at some point and study it for life... at any rate, I want to focus on learning the Ruy and trying to gather opinions as to the best way of going about it. there are so many variations. should i learn each one at a time or the overall themes and tactics arising from positions? any suggestions are appreciated.
    I think the best way would be to learn the variations separately, as they all have different themes. For example, the Steinitz Defence is safe but cramps Black, the Open Morphy leads to tactical play where as the Closed Morphy leads to positional play. In the Ruy Lopez even one move makes all the difference as to the type of game that will result. Learn the basic themes first, the best way to learn the basic themes of the Ruy Lopez is supposed to be by playing the Italian Game and familiarising yourself with the c3 d4 e4 pawn structure etc.

    The term Spanish Game is very broad and I feel that the various options after 3.Bb5 are really like separate openings. For example, 3...Bc5, the Cordel Defence (a favourite of Fischer's) leads to a very different game from 3...a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Be7, the Closed Morphy Defence. Not to mention the Ruy Lopez Exchange Variation 3...a6 4.Bxc6 dxc6, what is known as an "endgame opening", if that isn't a contradictory term.

    In all the Ruy Lopez is a huge system that will take a long time to learn and use effectively, but the rewards of using it properly are worth it.
  4. 20 Dec '05 21:17
    Originally posted by lukemcmullan
    I think the best way would be to learn the variations separately, as they all have different themes. For example, the Steinitz Defence is safe but cramps Black, the Open Morphy leads to tactical play where as the Closed Morphy leads to positional play. In the Ruy Lopez even one move makes all the difference as to the type of game that will result. Le ...[text shortened]... ake a long time to learn and use effectively, but the rewards of using it properly are worth it.
    thanks for responding- and yeah, I see what you mean about the Ruy being an umbrella term for several different openings. the characteristic move comes after 3. Bb5- and seeing how black has the power of dermining what path of the Ruy will take- how deep into each variation is it worth going into?
  5. 20 Dec '05 21:20
    www.chessville.com

    Go to instruction - openings. I don't like this because it takes lots of time and you could be studying tactics but...

    You get an opening book, read throught it briefly just the main lines and then play that opening and see where you deviate from the book line and then go back and learn it again from the book and then play a game. After your done, go through each variation and repeat.

    I suggest just get the general idea and then play it and learn from your games.
  6. 21 Dec '05 12:01
    Have a look at the Ruy Lopez Exchange variation(s), this will allow you to get straight into the endgame(s) in the majority of setups and will teach you a lot with respect to this part of the game. Okay, these variations are of drawish nature but that's at top level.
  7. 21 Dec '05 17:09
    besides the exchange variation, is one of the ideas to get your white bishop to b3? seems like even without that a6 pawn challenge, white mostly works to get that bishop lined up to point at f7- is this accurate?
  8. 22 Dec '05 01:22
    1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 you attack the pawn Nc6 he defends 3.Bb5 you attack the defender a6 he trys to kick you out Ba4 you hold your ground etc...

    Once he plays b5 then you go Bb3 and start attacking the f7 pawn. I never seen white move to Bb3 on purpose in the opening until after a6 and b5 were played by black.
  9. 22 Dec '05 05:28
    Originally posted by RahimK
    1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 you attack the pawn Nc6 he defends 3.Bb5 you attack the defender a6 he trys to kick you out Ba4 you hold your ground etc...
    Like to also point out that White CAN play Bc4 (instead of Ba4) too, however, the reason why Ba4 is played is that White can enter the Steinitz Deferred variation of the Ruy Lopez with 5. Bxc6 if one wishes too.
  10. 22 Dec '05 13:38
    Go to a club. Kindly ask one of the players to play into a roy as black. Play as much of it as you know, and as you think best. After, see if he will give you a few tips (especially if he is a better player). Then pull out your opening book and see where you deviated from the given line and figure out why the given line is better (if you memory isn't good enough to do this, record the game). Find another player and repeat. 2 games like this per week at G/20 or longer and you will have it learned in no time.

    You could do this online too, but I prefer face to face instruction/game discussion...
  11. 22 Dec '05 13:55
    Three useful ideas
    h3 actually recommended as g4 is the best spot fo Black's Queen Bishop.
    Your queenside knight often hops from b1-d2-f1 then to g3 or e3
    c3 and d4 keeping that big centre.

    These don't happen in every variation of course but they're common Ruy manouevres.
  12. 22 Dec '05 20:17
    Originally posted by Oddjob291
    Like to also point out that White CAN play Bc4 (instead of Ba4) too, however, the reason why Ba4 is played is that White can enter the Steinitz Deferred variation of the Ruy Lopez with 5. Bxc6 if one wishes too.
    Why waste moves? If you wanted you bishop on c4 then put him there in the beginning.

    1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4

    Why let black get in an extra move?

    After this sequence 3...Nf6 is the 2 knights and not Ruy.
  13. 22 Dec '05 20:23
    Originally posted by RahimK
    Why waste moves? If you wanted you bishop on c4 then put him there in the beginning.

    1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4

    Why let black get in an extra move?

    After this sequence 3...Nf6 is the 2 knights and not Ruy.
    The difference is whether the inclusion of ...a6 is considered to be a weakening move in the long run.
  14. 23 Dec '05 02:55
    If you intend to play the ruy, make sure you are prepared against the marshal gambit or you are dead, dead, dead!
  15. 23 Dec '05 08:04
    Marshall yes. I just got canned today on the black side of a marshall vs a 1968 player OTB. Had lots of pressure and he was down to 4 minutes, timer was game in 110 min with 30 sec increment after each move, I had 40 minutes but he got me eventually.

    A master told me if some master had the black pieces in my position vs another master, they would have made sweat appear on white's Nuts

    So basically I had a promising positions, just not strong enough to break through and get his king. This will bump me down to 1700 OTB.