Ruy Possibilities.

Originally posted by schakuhr
I would not recommend playing the bird variation (1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nd4?!). I doubt any strong player will fall for the 4. Nxe5? trap, and will probably play 4. Nxd4 exd4 5. O-O with a very pleasant position for white.

"With a very pleasant position for white" is a rather simplistic assessment I think. There have been a lot of games played in this line, which can also arise from a Classical Lopez move-order (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Bc5 4.0-0 Nd4 5.Nxd4 exd4), but I think the jury is still out. Black doesn't seem to quite equalise, but his position is a lot more resiliant than some people may think.

Originally posted by Northern Lad
I think that the main line 4.d3 fxe4 5.dxe4 Nf6 6.0-0 does give white a reasonable prospect of a small positional advantage. However, I've had considerable success with 4...Nf6!?

After 4...Nf6 5.0-0 does black have better option than 5...fxe4 which leads to transposition?

Originally posted by Korch
After 4...Nf6 5.0-0 does black have better option than 5...fxe4 which leads to transposition?

Yes he does! Black can play it as a genuine gambit with a move like 5...Be7 or 5...Nd4.

Originally posted by Northern Lad
"With a very pleasant position for white" is a rather simplistic assessment I think. There have been a lot of games played in this line, which can also arise from a Classical Lopez move-order (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Bc5 4.0-0 Nd4 5.Nxd4 exd4), but I think the jury is still out. Black doesn't seem to quite equalise, but his position is a lot more resiliant than some people may think.

To be honest I was thinking of putting Bird's first on the list.

As a life long player of the Ruy as White I have always found Bird's quite tricky to play against.

My concern with the Schliemann's is 4.Bxc6 which dull's the position somewhat.

By the way I think 4.d3 v the Schliemann is quite underrated. (Its recommended in Greet's recent work 'Play the Ruy Lopez'😉

Originally posted by Northern Lad
Yes he does! Black can play it as a genuine gambit with a move like 5...Be7 or 5...Nd4.

White is not obliged to accept these gambits:

5....Be7 6.Nc3 d6 (6...0-0 7.Bc4+) 7.a3 (with idea of 7...a6 8.Bc4 b5 9.Ba2)

5...Nd4 6.Nxd4 exd4 7.e5 Nd5 8.Bc4

In both lines white gets comfortable position with advantage.

Originally posted by najdorfslayer
I like playng 1...e5 in response to 1.e4
But I have been searching for a good line against the Ruy. I absolutely HATE playing against the Exchange variation, which I find I get about 50% of the time OTB. So I have been endevouring to try and play something other than 3...a6.

Narrowed it down to 3

1. Schliemann
2. Classical (with Cordel Gambit) ...[text shortened]... aggressive player what do you play against the Ruy OTB? If 3...a6 how do you find the Exchange?

Dragon Fire plays the Open Ruy Lopez, last I heard he was rather maniacally obsessed with it too. 😉

Originally posted by Northern Lad
Maybe a Schliemann theme tourney might be an idea?

There has been at least one already, I think recently too.

As white, I never play the exchange variation. Too weak, I think you can create more complications otherwise.

Originally posted by cmsMaster
There has been at least one already, I think recently too.

Don't think so not with last 6 months or so or else I would have known

Originally posted by ih8sens
A billion variations of the ruy. What moves do you prefer?

as white i'm finding 1.e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. Qe2 very good at the moment. Alekhine favoured this line in some of his earlier games and had some awesome results with it.
I,ve been particularly charmed by Alekhine - Duras, St. Petersburg 1913. a great game, look it up if you get the chance.

Originally posted by Northern Lad
As someone who has played the Schliemann OTB successfully against strong players (including GMs), I can't agree with this assessment. It may not be perfect objectively but is lively enough to give white players something to think about. I would say though that what is considered by many to be the main line (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 f5 4.Nc3 fxe4 5.Nxe4 d ...[text shortened]... o know, which, in view of the infrequency of being allowed to play it, is somewhat offputting.

did you read my edit?

Originally posted by tomtom232
did you read my edit?

Sorry, misread it! However, I still think the points I raised were worth raising.

Originally posted by Korch
White is not obliged to accept these gambits:

5....Be7 6.Nc3 d6 (6...0-0 7.Bc4+) 7.a3 (with idea of 7...a6 8.Bc4 b5 9.Ba2)

5...Nd4 6.Nxd4 exd4 7.e5 Nd5 8.Bc4

In both lines white gets comfortable position with advantage.

I've had the line 5...Be7 6.Nc3 0-0 7.Bc4+ Kh8 OTB and can't remember any particular difficulties for black.

Originally posted by najdorfslayer
To be honest I was thinking of putting Bird's first on the list.

As a life long player of the Ruy as White I have always found Bird's quite tricky to play against.

My concern with the Schliemann's is 4.Bxc6 which dull's the position somewhat.

By the way I think 4.d3 v the Schliemann is quite underrated. (Its recommended in Greet's recent work 'Play the Ruy Lopez'😉

Lots of things are written in books, but they're not all right. I'm a bit wary of the objectivity of repertoire books where white always seems to gain an advantage, or if it's a black opening, black always seems to equalise at least!

As for 4.Bxc6 against the Schliemann, I actually quite enjoy playing against it (more so than against the normal Exchange Lopez). 4.Bxc6 followed by Nc3 and Qe2 was presented in a NiC Yearbook a few years back as a way for white to gain a positional advantage against the Schliemann without any risk. Not surprisingly it became quite popular.
But do not believe it; black is fine! I've had considerable success with the line 4.Bxc6 dxc6 5.Nc3 Nf6 6.Qe2 Bc5!? (not that's anything too much wrong with the more usual 6...Bd6 or 6...fxe4) 7.exf5 Qe7.

I don't normally play the Lopez as white, but if I did, I would almost certainly play 4.Nc3 against the Schliemann; it is by far the most critical variation.

Originally posted by Talisman
as white i'm finding 1.e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. Qe2 very good at the moment. Alekhine favoured this line in some of his earlier games and had some awesome results with it.
I,ve been particularly charmed by Alekhine - Duras, St. Petersburg 1913. a great game, look it up if you get the chance.

I just play 5...Be7 against this, allowing white to go into a Worrall with 6.0-0 if he wishes. 6.c3 b5 7.Bc2 d5! is fine for black.