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  1. Standard member Korch
    Chess Warrior
    06 Feb '07 21:05
    Few days ago I finished game with nice sacrifice on e6. Game 3029588

    If anyone have games with similar sacrifice on e6, please post them here.
  2. 06 Feb '07 21:19
    I'd say the sacrifice was on c3.
  3. Standard member Korch
    Chess Warrior
    06 Feb '07 22:05
    Originally posted by omulcusobolani
    I'd say the sacrifice was on c3.
    True, but main knock was on e6.
  4. 07 Feb '07 00:34
    One of my favorite games http://www.redhotpawn.com/core/playchess.php?gameid=2971586
  5. 07 Feb '07 01:27 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by MrVandalay
    One of my favorite games http://www.redhotpawn.com/core/playchess.php?gameid=2971586
    click the "insert link to a game" link next time and enter the game number, no one but you can use the link you posted.

    Game 2971586
  6. 07 Feb '07 01:55
    Originally posted by Korch
    Few days ago I finished game with nice sacrifice on e6. Game 3029588

    If anyone have games with similar sacrifice on e6, please post them here.
    Very nice, quite interesting too. I'd be hesitant to make a sacrifice as such, because there doesn't seem a clear way to follow - my main worry with that type of sacrifice is that you don't have a completely open e file to work with even after the sacrifice, which makes the attack hard to see. What factors led you to decide that the sacrifice was worthy?
  7. 07 Feb '07 03:38 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by cmsMaster
    Very nice, quite interesting too. I'd be hesitant to make a sacrifice as such, because there doesn't seem a clear way to follow - my main worry with that type of sacrifice is that you don't have a completely open e file to work with even after the sacrifice, which makes the attack hard to see. What factors led you to decide that the sacrifice was worthy?
    Fritz says 14.Ng5 instead of 14.Nxf8?! gives you a nearly decisive advantage.
  8. Standard member Korch
    Chess Warrior
    07 Feb '07 05:47 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by cmsMaster
    Very nice, quite interesting too. I'd be hesitant to make a sacrifice as such, because there doesn't seem a clear way to follow - my main worry with that type of sacrifice is that you don't have a completely open e file to work with even after the sacrifice, which makes the attack hard to see. What factors led you to decide that the sacrifice was worthy?

    Fritz says 14.Ng5 instead of 14.Nxf8?! gives you a nearly decisive advantage.
    I took on d4 with knight in 9th move, with hope to knock on e6 somehow like in this famous game:

    [Event "Moscow International Tournament"]
    [Site "Moscow"]
    [Date "1925.??.??"]
    [EventDate "?"]
    [Round "19"]
    [Result "1-0"]
    [White "J Capablanca"]
    [Black "E Bogoljubov"]
    [ECO "D24"]
    [WhiteElo "?"]
    [BlackElo "?"]
    [PlyCount "64"]

    1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 dxc4 4. e4 c5 5. Bxc4 cxd4 6. Nxd4 Nf6 7. Nc3 Bc5 8.
    Be3 Nbd7 9. Bxe6 fxe6 10. Nxe6 Qa5 11. O-O Bxe3 12. fxe3 Kf7 13. Qb3 Kg6 14.
    Rf5 Qb6 15. Nf4+ Kh6 16. g4 g5 17. Qxb6 axb6 18. Rd1 Rg8 19. Nfd5 Nxg4 20. Ne7
    Rg7 21. Rd6+ Kh5 22. Rf3 Ngf6 23. Rh3+ Kg4 24. Rg3+ Kh5 25. Nf5 Rg6 26. Ne7 g4
    27. Nxg6 Kxg6 28. Rxg4+ Kf7 29. Rf4 Kg7 30. e5 Ne8 31. Re6 Nc7 32. Re7+ 1-0

    In my game 11...b4 seemed to me risky move for black (in such positions flank operations with unfinished development cant be good idea) and I started to search how to punish the opponent for that and idea to sacrifice knight for leaving black king in center liked me very much - because I saw that after 14.Nxf8 black should take on f8 with rook, because if 14...Kxf8? then I would play 15.Qc4! winning. After 14...Rf8 I didnt see good plan for black how to consolidate their position and get their king our of center - they cant get their king to kingside (because Black cant avoid from whites bishop on a3), but queen side is too open for whites rooks.

    When I planned 12.Rd1 and 13.Nxe6 I though only about 14.Nxf8, but also Rybka in position after black 13th mover says, that 14.Ng5 is better. But after 14.Ng5 Qb5 (only good move) 15.Qxb5 axb5 16.Nxf7 Rg8 17.Rd8+ Ke7 18.bxc3 Bb7 Rybka rates this position as equal and I would agree that dont need to be engine for making good defence for black.
    As equal rybka rated position after 14.Nxf8 Rxf8 15.bxc3 after which black according to Rybka should play 15....Qa5 (instead of 15...Qb5) on which white have many possible answers, but as I said Rybka rates this position as equal which means that sacrifice was at least correct. But I`m not sure that analysing more long time engine won`t find whites position
    as better or even winning. Anyway - maybe progs can defend such positions, but for humans it definetly is uneasy.
  9. 07 Feb '07 11:01 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Korch
    Few days ago I finished game with nice sacrifice on e6. Game 3029588

    Interesting game. Just curious, how hesistant were you regarding the sacrifice? Many chess players feel uncomfortable giving up material unless they see a clear way to account for it. Sometimes this can be a limitation in their play.
  10. Standard member Ragnorak
    For RHP addons...
    07 Feb '07 11:47
    Originally posted by Varenka

    Interesting game. Just curious, how hesistant were you regarding the sacrifice? Many chess players feel uncomfortable giving up material unless they see a clear way to account for it. Sometimes this can be a limitation in their play.
    A true sacrifice is one where you can't calculate to the end. Most sacs where material is regained or mate is delivered within a move or 2 should be classed as combinations.

    D
  11. 07 Feb '07 12:21
    Originally posted by Korch
    Few days ago I finished game with nice sacrifice on e6. Game 3029588

    If anyone have games with similar sacrifice on e6, please post them here.
    Korch, when I saw the sacrifice I looked at Qxd1 and white has a lot more active pieces after all the exchanges which I guess is why it is bad for black. I have always gone for the queen being better the few times I have come across this in my own games, simply because I don't know which is best. But could such a "counter-sacrifice" work if black was equally developed?
  12. 07 Feb '07 12:37 / 1 edit
    Giving up a queen for a rook and two pieces with equal development is almost always good.Game 2321906 even with perfect defense from move 17 on black should be loosing.However in this case white has better development too.
  13. 07 Feb '07 12:40
    Thanks, now I know !
  14. 07 Feb '07 12:54
    Sacrifices are very interesting. It is easy to understand that a sac gives a return of equal or more material value, even beyond my thinking horizon. Also when a sac gives a clear win. (But then it is not a real sac, is it?)

    But a sac giving, not material value but, a strategic value, like destroyed king protection, a clear line, opportunity to double rook, make the others bishop imprisoned or another value not so easily calculable in terms of points. Those are sacs that is very interesting. I don't have any example of that at hand, I'm afraid.

    There are a number of sacrifices with a certain theme. Like the Greek gift, poisoned pawn, desperados and such. Even gambits are sacs in a sense, giving an advantage in one way or another.

    Sacs are very interesting. Pity that I don't find them when I need them...

    I now study a book, called "Richtig Offern – Voraussetzungen, Ziel und Durchführung des Opfers im Schachspiel" by Rudolf Speielmann (1935). Gives a lot, worth reading.
  15. Standard member Ragnorak
    For RHP addons...
    07 Feb '07 14:54 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Sacrifices are very interesting. It is easy to understand that a sac gives a return of equal or more material value, even beyond my thinking horizon. Also when a sac gives a clear win. (But then it is not a real sac, is it?)

    But a sac giving, not material value but, a strategic value, like destroyed king protection, a clear line, opportunity to double führung des Opfers im Schachspiel" by Rudolf Speielmann (1935). Gives a lot, worth reading.
    The Art of Attack in Chess is a good book for learning about the art of sacrifice.

    This probably the game where I sacced the most for strategic gains.
    Game 2402048
    19...a5 try to tempt the defender of d4 away.
    20...f5 offered pawn to try to get bishop on d4, and support passed pawn.
    22...Bxd4 to remove King from blockading of passed pawn pair.
    I don't think 27 and 28 count as a sac, but the knights were the only pieces which would be effective against the brutal passed pawns.

    Game 2764496
    I'm very happy with the offered bishop sac, 10...h5 which had a few points, 1) It'd open up the h file into the castled king position, 2) it would hopefully remove the knight at f3,which was defending h4, and blocking my queen from directly attacking the f2 pawn. 14...Rh1 was a pretty basic "sac" to allow my queen to get to the h4 square with gain of tempo.

    Classic Greek Gift:Game 1514982

    D