Scotch Game

Originally posted by onehandgann
ok we are looking at different lines. I think if queen g4. king f8.

Black loses castling rights and puts his King on a half-open file while his Queen is tied up defending c7. Getting his King side rook into play will be difficult. I like White's middle game chances.

yeah that was the line with two possible continuations. One poster thought there was an attack if white later moves his bishop to c4 and then castled. That was the line I was responding to. There is not much of an attack in that case. Anothe poster gave the better queen g4 move later in the line with the g6 continuation. I am looking at that right now.

ok then g6 and after white castles black plays f6.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Black loses castling rights and puts his King on a half-open file while his Queen is tied up defending c7. Getting his King side rook into play will be difficult. I like White's middle game chances.

What about Bh3 at the end of your line for black?

instead of f6 Bh3 that looks really interesting. White will take the pawn on f7 with his bishop. Black with have to retreat his king to d7 to get out of check and then what? um. Rook move out of the bishop attack? Looks complicated. At least I am learning some theory today. Interesting opening.

Originally posted by adam warlock
At move 2 you mean Nc6 right?

Of course; I copy pasted onehandgann's line without checking.

Originally posted by onehandgann
instead of f6 Bh3 that looks really interesting. White will take the pawn on f7 with his bishop. Black with have to retreat his king to d7 to get out of check and then what? um. Rook move out of the bishop attack? Looks complicated. At least I am learning some theory today. Interesting opening.

Yep.
14. Re1 seems very idiotic as there is no life for the rook down the e-file

14. Rd1 {semiopen file and the white queen threats the balck knight on e5 due to the pin on black's d-pawn} Qe7!

the knight is protected and black threatens to pin white's bishop if white is careless and plays for instance 15. Nc3 so i guess the next move is forced

15. Bxg8 Rhxg8
16. Nc3 {Nd2 maybe...don't know for sure} g5
17. Qf2 Raf8
18. Qe2 {Qd2 allows a fork} Bg4

And I think that black is better. Maybe even better is 17 Rgf8 in order to keep the a-pawn protected. Now the question is if white can somehow have better moves than the ones I saw.

Originally posted by adam warlock
Yep.
14. Re1 seems very idiotic as there is no life for the rook down the e-file

14. Rd1 {semiopen file and the white queen threats the balck knight on e5 due to the pin on black's d-pawn} Qe7!

the knight is protected and black threatens to pin white's bishop if white is careless and plays for instance 15. Nc3 so i guess the next move is forced ...[text shortened]... wn protected. Now the question is if white can somehow have better moves than the ones I saw.

Why would White move the Rook off the f-file? Rf2 looks best.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Why would White move the Rook off the f-file? Rf2 looks best.

After it black plays g5 and white can't save his queen right?

exactly if white moves the rook to f2 g5 traps the white queen. Database gives Nc3 as the more common move just leaving the rook where it is.

Originally posted by adam warlock
After it black plays g5 and white can't save his queen right?

Yes, he can but it's still a blunder. The databases say N1c3.

ok I see white has to give the bishop away to save the queen in that case.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Yes, he can but it's still a blunder. The databases say N1c3.

Rf2 woukd be a bigger blunder then. But I don't check databases that often so I miss stuff.

But anyway were is the compensation for white when he's down the exchange? I don't the pawn he has is enough...

so:
14. Nc3 Bx1
15 Rxf1 Ne7

Originally posted by adam warlock
Rf2 woukd be a bigger blunder then. But I don't check databases that often so I miss stuff.

But anyway were is the compensation for white when he's down the exchange? I don't the pawn he has is enough...

so:
14. Nc3 Bx1
15 Rxf1 Ne7

16 Nd4 threatening Be6+ looks unpleasant. Black's awful weak on the light squares; I can't find a single game where Black takes the rook.

Originally posted by no1marauder
16 Nd4 threatening Be6+ looks unpleasant. Black's awful weak on the light squares; I can't find a single game where Black takes the rook.

I see what you mean, but I have to go with my instincts and and take the rook.

I'll check CM8K Db and see what I can find.

Edit: CM8K doesn't even have Bh3