Scotch Game

This postion arises after 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Bc5 5. Be3 Qf6 6. Nb5?!

Try as I might, I can't refute this. Bxe3 fxe3 seems a good start, but later White plays something like Bc4 and 0-0 with a damning attack. What am I missing? Help appreciated.
Thanks,
curseknight
🙂

That line gets discussed (briefly, though) here....

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessopening?eco=c45

🙂

Originally posted by curseknight
[fen]r1b1k1nr/pppp1ppp/2n2q2/1Nb5/4P3/4B3/PPP2PPP/RN1QKB1R w[/fen]

This postion arises after 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Bc5 5. Be3 Qf6 6. Nb5?!

Try as I might, I can't refute this. Bxe3 fxe3 seems a good start, but later White plays something like Bc4 and 0-0 with a damning attack. What am I missing? Help appreciated.
Thanks,
curseknight
🙂

6. ... Bxe3 7. fxe3 Qh4+ 8. g3 Qxe4 9. Nxc7+ Kf8 10. Nxa8 Qxh1
8. e2 {or Kd2} Kd8 and no more forking tricks {Or maybe 8. ... Qd8 but this like time wasted}

Originally posted by adam warlock
6. ... Bxe3 7. fxe3 Qh4+ 8. g3 Qxe4 9. Nxc7+ Kf8 10. Nxa8 Qxh1
8. e2 {or Kd2} Kd8 and no more forking tricks {Or maybe 8. ... Qd8 but this like time wasted}

Visualising this, so correct me if I'm wrong.
Nxa8 Qxh1... 11. Qd6+ Ke8 12. Nc7+ Kd8 13. Qf8+ Kxc7 14. Qxg7- doesn't that win a rook for a knight?

I'll challenge anyone to a set-piece Scotch at a reasonable level, it'd be good to learn a bit more about it. Any takers? Please?

From the starting position pictured above?

Originally posted by more guinness
From the starting position pictured above?

If you want, or we could start the position after d4. I'll send you a challenge, shall I?

Originally posted by mjolnir
Visualising this, so correct me if I'm wrong.
Nxa8 Qxh1... 11. Qd6+ Ke8 12. Nc7+ Kd8 13. Qf8+ Kxc7 14. Qxg7- doesn't that win a rook for a knight?

It does seem so... Hmmmmm

after that queen h4 check. allow the fork. you will have an attack on whites rook as well if he goes through with it.

or you can just go back to d8 after the check not really wasted because you weakened his king side first.

Originally posted by onehandgann
after that queen h4 check. allow the fork. you will have an attack on whites rook as well if he goes through with it.

Read my post first which suggested a way for White to win the exchange.

Originally posted by onehandgann
or you can just go back to d8 after the check not really wasted because you weakened his king side first.

Read curseknight's post first where he suggested that Bc4 0-0 is strong for White. Reading the thread helps.

I spotted something in the position after Nb5, by the way, Qxb2 fails after Nb1c3- double threat of Nxc7+ winning the rook, or Rb1 winning the queen (I think). Difficult line here!

Originally posted by mjolnir
I spotted something in the position after Nb5, by the way, Qxb2 fails after Nb1c3- double threat of Nxc7+ winning the rook, or Rb1 winning the queen (I think). Difficult line here!

I think that after 5. ... Qf6 white always get a very tangible advantage. So I won't be playing it in any of my games when I face the Scotch.

Edit. 4. ...Nf6 seems nice though.

Edit: On your line Bxc5 is even better for white though 😉

Originally posted by adam warlock
I think that after 5. ... Qf6 white always get a very tangible advantage. So I won't be playing it in any of my games when I face the Scotch.

Edit. 4. ...Nf6 seems nice though.

Edit: On your line Bxc5 is even better for white though 😉

If White is allowed to move twice in a row that would be great, but with the Knight at d4 Bxc5 isn't an option.

4 ....... Nf6 runs into Kaspy's favorite: 5 Nxc6 bxc6 6 e5 which is a very complicated line.