Silman's Fantasy Position

Originally posted by RahimK
I don't know if anyone will find this interesting but I found this very interesting both times I read the book.

[fen]2br2k1/5pp1/1p3q1p/2pBpP2/2P1P3/P6P/2Q3P1/5RK1 w - - 0 1[/fen]

White to play.

Dream up a fantasy position for white. Where would you want your pieces and pawns to be?

white pawns on g5 and h4, and queen on g3 and rook on g1 so that after black queen moves white can play gxh6 and open up g-file.

Originally posted by RahimK
..the kingside looks attractive but you might expose your king. Why take that risk.

because it's there. 🙂

I'd have my queen at the gates of the black castle, with the pawns storming right in, the rook bombarding from the distance. why fantasize about snatching a scrawny pawn, when you can set the lair of the black regent into fire.

Rg6, Qg3, Kh2.

Originally posted by Jusuh
white pawns on g5 and h4, and queen on g3 and rook on g1 so that after black queen moves white can play gxh6 and open up g-file.

Well Silman said the kingside is promising but risky and I agree with him. Both plans are good but I would go with the safer one.

Play what you prefer.

Originally posted by RahimK
Well Silman said the kingside is promising but risky and I agree with him. Both plans are good but I would go with the safer one.

Play what you prefer.

If the mating attack fails miserably, there is always that weak pawn to be grabbed.

Originally posted by Jusuh
If the mating attack fails miserably, there is always that weak pawn to be grabbed.

But then your king would be open.

I prefer playing on the queenside but play what you are comfortable with.

Just an example which I found interesting and thought others might as well.

Originally posted by RahimK
But then your king would be open.

I prefer playing on the queenside but play what you are comfortable with.

Just an example which I found interesting and thought others might as well.

that's pretty easy to fix. just put your own king on the other end of the board and back it up with some muscle (ie pawns) 🙂

Originally posted by allostery
that's pretty easy to fix. just put your own king on the other end of the board and back it up with some muscle (ie pawns) 🙂

And while you are doing that, black is improving his position and plotting to kill you king in the middle of the night 🙂

Originally posted by RahimK
And while you are doing that, black is improving his position and plotting to kill you king in the middle of the night 🙂

Hopefully not in fantasy land. Yikes, I hope no one dies in fantasy land! Wouldn't make it a very nice place. 😲

ps. not sure how that smile will come out. still playing around with my options on those things it was : o

I thought we were moving and black was staying put. I think any one of those other moves there would be SOME kind of response by black's pieces. am i wrong?

Generally I quite like Silman but i think the "fantasy position" method is completely useless .. I could spend 2 hours thinking up wonderful positions that are simply unachievable from my current position and if you reduce the allowable "fantasy positions" to those that are foreseeably achievable then how is it different than simple tactics?

I kinda felt the same way at first too, but my view is changing. The book kinda makes you think that their is just one correct fantasy position that you must attain, but in a game that isn't pratical. It's kinda hard to explain, but calculation and fantasy positions go together. So you gotta work out the tactics, but be aware of the ideal positions for your pieces. That all ties down to strategic planning. Does that make sense?

Originally posted by Zander 88
I kinda felt the same way at first too, but my view is changing. The book kinda makes you think that their is just one correct fantasy position that you must attain, but in a game that isn't pratical. It's kinda hard to explain, but calculation and fantasy positions go together. So you gotta work out the tactics, but be aware of the ideal positions for your pieces. That all ties down to strategic planning. Does that make sense?

Kind of .. it still sounds a bit like snake oil to me though. I think you're better off understanding why your knight is better off centrally placed or how to use a passed pawn to cramp your opponents position. It just sounds a little bit like placing the cart before the horse to me ..

Originally posted by idioms
Generally I quite like Silman but i think the "fantasy position" method is completely useless .. I could spend 2 hours thinking up wonderful positions that are simply unachievable from my current position and if you reduce the allowable "fantasy positions" to those that are foreseeably achievable then how is it different than simple tactics?

if you think it is uselless why don't you go back in time and tell that to Emanuel Lasker

I think idioms is just trying to say that it is better to calculate the variations and then assess the position then trying to do it the other way. In a fantasy position you just put your pieces on any sqares. When your calculating, you move the pieces in your head based on their movement pattern. That's what I've been doing for awhile now too since it came more natural and was more practical. Now, I try to combine the two.

To me the fantasy position is kind of like planning.

You dream up of a "reasonable" position and see if you can achieve it.

If you think you can achieve it, then you start calculating and analysing. If I got here, what can he do? Will it disturb my plan?

If you find that it's not attainable you find another position that is.

I kind of find it helpful. In this case, I knew the b-pawn was the target but I would have left my queen near my rook somewhere but dream up the position, you can see that the queen belongs on a7.


It's an interesting Idea though 🙂