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  1. 22 May '09 09:18
    Post your own or ones that dazzle you every time you play over it or both.

    I will start with one fresh off the board to get it kicked off (at least sort of fresh... Less than a day old)

    1.e4 c5 2.d4 cxd4 3.c3 dxc3 4.Nxc3 Nc6 5.Bc4 d6 6.Nf3 e6 7.0-0 Nf6 8.Qc2 I like this move better than the "book" move 8.Qe2 because if 8...Nb4? then 9.Qa4+ Nc6 10.Bg5 and in blitz I often meet 10...h6? 11.Bxf6 Qxf6? Which is what happens in this game 8...Nb4? this is bad because it loses previous time. Better is 8...Be7 and 9...0-0 when white must hurry to turn his lead in development(temporary) into something more concrete or else he won't have any play and will be down a pawn for naught 9.Qa4+ Nc6 10.Bg5 h6? once again losing time and allowing a trade that favours white since the dark bishop can't help in the attack and the knight would be a darling defender better was again 10...Be7 intending ...0-011.Bxf6 Qxf6? boy black is full of errors here! This is quite weak because it allows white to open the d file whenever he wants.12.Rfd1 Bd7 13.Bb5 Be7?? but i've been saying this is a good move! Unfortunately now it is too late! 14.e5! Queens get kicked! Forcefully opening up the d file is desicive14...dxe5 15.Rxd7! a neat combination on the newly opened d file to wrap things up15...Kxd7 16.Rd1+ perhaps slightly inaccurate 16.Bxc6+ is more forcing16...Kc7 17.Bxc6 bxc6 18.Qa5+ Kb8 if 18...Kc8 then 19.Nb5! 19.Rd7! Bd8 20.Qa6 now white is completely winning... There is no defense 20...Bc7 21.Qxc6 Rc8 22.Nb5 E4 23.Nxc7 exf3 and now for a nice knight mate to end it 24.Na6# 1-0

    So far this my favorite gambit out of all the gambits I have ever played. Watch game below.

  2. Standard member black beetle
    Black Beastie
    22 May '09 09:49
    Interesting game, however 4. ...Nc6 is horrible; with the simple 4. ...d6 or even 4. ...e6 the Black is OK
  3. 22 May '09 09:59
    Originally posted by black beetle
    Interesting game, however 4. ...Nc6 is horrible; with the simple 4. ...d6 or even 4. ...e6 the Black is OK
    You will notice that he plays both and after his seventh move we are still in book.
  4. Standard member black beetle
    Black Beastie
    22 May '09 10:29
    Originally posted by tomtom232
    You will notice that he plays both and after his seventh move we are still in book.
    It's a bad variation regardless if it is included in the theory; but with 4. ..d6 5.Bc4 e6 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.0-0 Be7 the White has nothing
  5. 22 May '09 10:36
    Originally posted by black beetle
    It's a bad variation regardless if it is included in the theory; but with 4. ..d6 5.Bc4 e6 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.0-0 Be7 the White has nothing
    He could have played 7...Be7 and it would be the same position. If you notice in my comments I say that ...Be7 needs to get played.
  6. 22 May '09 10:39
    tomtom how come you're rated so low? Your game was quite good. (In a novice's opinion anyway)
  7. Standard member black beetle
    Black Beastie
    22 May '09 10:40
    Originally posted by tomtom232
    He could have played 7...Be7 and it would be the same position. If you notice in my comments I say that ...Be7 needs to get played.
    Yes. But I don't like 4. ...Nc6 because of 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bc4 Nf6 7.e5 dxe5 8.Qxd8 Nxd8 9.Nb5.
  8. 22 May '09 10:44
    Originally posted by Goshen
    tomtom how come you're rated so low? Your game was quite good. (In a novice's opinion anyway)
    I left with a lot of games in progress(actually had internet problems) and I haven't played a game here since. I just like the forums. I have also improved since that time and if you notice my peak rating is somewhere in the 1700s.
  9. 22 May '09 10:47
    Originally posted by black beetle
    Yes. But I don't like 4. ...Nc6 because of 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bc4 Nf6 7.e5 dxe5 8.Qxd8 Nxd8 9.Nb5.
    Why not 6...e6 just like in the line you post above? Then if 7.e5 d5
  10. Standard member black beetle
    Black Beastie
    22 May '09 12:01
    Originally posted by tomtom232
    Why not 6...e6 just like in the line you post above? Then if 7.e5 d5
    Because after 6. ...e6 comes 7.0-0, and with 7. ...Nf6 the Black is behind in development. On the other hand after the 7.e5 you propose comes 7. ...dxe5 and the trade of the Queens favors the Black.
  11. 22 May '09 13:45 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by black beetle
    ...but with 4. ..d6 5.Bc4 e6 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.0-0 Be7 the White has nothing
    This looks like it would go into one of the ...Qc7 variations or the Classical main line.
    Regardless, this move-order allows White to develop in a routine way & has proven to be actually rather good for him.

    As for saying 4...Nc6 is "horrible"... well I really don't understand that, because it is the most natural move on the board for Black, with virtually all lines transposing in all variations, whether this move is played at move 4, 5, 6 or 7.
    It's far too early for it to make any difference for Black.
  12. Standard member black beetle
    Black Beastie
    22 May '09 14:03
    Originally posted by Squelchbelch
    This looks like it would go into one of the ...Qc7 variations or the Classical main line.
    Regardless, this move-order allows White to develop in a routine way & has proven to be actually rather good for him.

    As for saying 4...Nc6 is "horrible"... well I really don't understand that, because it is the most natural move on the board for Black, with vi ...[text shortened]... is played at move 4, 5, 6 or 7.
    It's far too early for it to make any difference for Black.
    Yeppers, but I just had in mind the drawish Pokojowczyk-Gligoric Yugoslavia 1981. There they played the variation we are talking about and the White continued with 8.Qe2 Nf6 9.Rd1 with pressure at the c and files, and then Gligoric went on with 9. ...e5 instead of ...Qc7.
  13. Standard member black beetle
    Black Beastie
    22 May '09 14:14
    Edit:
    "As for saying 4...Nc6 is "horrible"... well I really don't understand that, because it is the most natural move on the board for Black, with virtually all lines transposing in all variations, whether this move is played at move 4, 5, 6 or 7.
    It's far too early for it to make any difference for Black."

    Over here I prefer to follow Marovic and Flesch, who they both quote that 4. ...Nc6 is not the proper means to restrict the white e-pawn. Therefore I would rather play anytime 4. ...d6 or ...e6
  14. 22 May '09 19:38 / 1 edit
    Seems I missed a mate in 4 on move 20. I guess that's what happens when aren't accustomed to blitz


    Edit: although my continuation was best if black had played the "correct" defense 19...Bd6... So at least I have that
  15. 22 May '09 19:46 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by black beetle
    Edit:
    "As for saying 4...Nc6 is "horrible"... well I really don't understand that, because it is the most natural move on the board for Black, with virtually all lines transposing in all variations, whether this move is played at move 4, 5, 6 or 7.
    It's far too early for it to make any difference for Black."

    Over here I prefer to follow Marovic an ...[text shortened]... restrict the white e-pawn. Therefore I would rather play anytime 4. ...d6 or ...e6
    I'm not entirely convinced about how well you know the Morra.
    My point is that in about 75%+ of games the position below is reached & it matters not the slightest which move order is used & when ...Nc6 is played.



    Unless White wishes to go against the basic development principles governing the opening, he will play moves like Nf3, Bc4 & 0-0 as soon as possible in most variations.

    Of course, there are variations in which castling KS is delayed or White (very rarely) castles long, the queen is placed on b3 or sometimes d5 as opposed to the usual Qe2 & very occaisionally Nge2 is seen. The e4/e5 thematic is played early in some variations - notably when Black has a KS fianchetto, but all these are less frequently played.