Strange But True

This happened in a blitz game.
My opponent was far superior than me but I managed to hold the game. He was low on time, the flag was about to fall.

When I made the last move with only a king left I saw the flag fall, I let the king go from my fingers and said "Clock!" But at the same time he took my king with his rook and said "Win!"

He claimed a win because I had put my king in a checked square and he won by capture the king.
I claimed a win because I saw the flag fall and said "Clock!".
How to rule?

TD was called for and he asked the spectators what happened and got explanations. Half wanted to give me the win, the other half wanted the other to have the win. TD asked both of us if we would agree on a draw, which we did. It didn't really matter, this was a tournament for fun, and fun only. Nothing really depended of this came in particular. No hard feelings from any part.

But what would happened if a tournament prize was at stake? (No answers needed.)

How do you cappture a King?

Surely the most logicaal thing to do is for the tournament director to say that your move was illegal, take it back and (unfortunately) give your opponenent another 2 mins (I heard this on another thread, but can't remember where...).

Of course, you were playing in a "friendly" game, so a draw seems the firest if you're both happy.

Originally posted by gingerbreadman
How do you cappture a King?

Surely the most logicaal thing to do is for the tournament director to say that your move was illegal, take it back and (unfortunately) give your opponenent another 2 mins (I heard this on another thread, but can't remember where...).

Of course, you were playing in a "friendly" game, so a draw seems the firest if you're both happy.

In Blitz games there are a deviation of a rule: If you make such a strange move that your king can be captured, then the game is also lost if observed by the opponent and he actually takes the king.
Is this a local rule or is it a part of FIDEs rules?
Has anyone heard of this blitz rule?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
In Blitz games there are a deviation of a rule: If you make such a strange move that your king can be captured, then the game is also lost if observed by the opponent and he actually takes the king.
Is this a local rule or is it a part of FIDEs rules?
Has anyone heard of this blitz rule?

In tournaments I've played in that rule applied in rapid-play as well as blitz. The general idea is that any illegal move loses instantly.

Originally posted by chesskid001
I was under the impression (though I may be mistaken) that if a player runs out of time and neither play notices it, but a player notices it later on, then the player with time remaining wins(except when the player with time has insufficient material to mate, in which case it's a draw). A quite interesting scenario would be when both players eventually r ...[text shortened]... ithout the other one realizing it, and they keep playing far beyond the original time controls.

I've certainly seen games where both flags have dropped before anyone notices. I can't remember what the ruling was, though I'd guess it's a draw.

You'll sometimes be able to claim the win any time before the end of the game (although not afterwards). But you can get a situation where a player just fails to make a time control, but has made sufficient moves by the time anyone notices.

Originally posted by gingerbreadman
How do you cappture a King?

Surely the most logicaal thing to do is for the tournament director to say that your move was illegal, take it back and (unfortunately) give your opponenent another 2 mins (I heard this on another thread, but can't remember where...).

Of course, you were playing in a "friendly" game, so a draw seems the firest if you're both happy.

Not in speed chess! In speed chess you are allowed to capture the king! Now here's how I would rule on this matter...

If the person moving his king into check would've called the time before letting go of the king then he would win. But, as we all know now, once a game is concluded all illegal moves stand and the clock is no longer important. Therefore if the opponent moved his king into check and the guy ripped it off the board then it didn't matter if the flag was down because it had not been called before the king was captured.

If the person moved his king into check and then called the flag before the opponent could touch the piece that would take the the king, then he would win, but there is a rule that if a move is "in progress" and it delivers mate (or in this case takes the king) that it has priority over the clock and he would lose.

A draw is an easy way out for the TD.

Perhaps I use the wrong designation.
The games was 5 minutes for each player and game.
A game can be 10 minutes at maximum.
Is this Blitz?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Perhaps I use the wrong designation.
The games was 5 minutes for each player and game.
A game can be 10 minutes at maximum.
Is this Blitz?

Yes, so Blitz rules apply.

I would have to disagree.

I have recently played in a rapid play match (in england) where it was illegal to take the king and was clearly stated by both captains before the game.

Therefore if you were following these rules then the person taking the king has made the illegal move and the oppenent should recieve the 2 minute bonus.

Instead of capturing the king, a player should have say you have made an illegal move as your king is still in check and got 2 more minutes.

The FIDE rule below states that taking the king is illegal and the separate rapid play and blitz rules appendicies make no mention of taking the king.

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7.4

If during a game it is found that an illegal move, including failing to meet the requirements of the promotion of a pawn or capturing the opponent`s king, has been completed, the position immediately before the irregularity shall be reinstated.

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Originally posted by nmc987
I would have to disagree.

I have recently played in a rapid play match (in england) where it was illegal to take the king and was clearly stated by both captains before the game.

Therefore if you were following these rules then the person taking the king has made the illegal move and the oppenent should recieve the 2 minute bonus.

Instead of captur ...[text shortened]... e reinstated.

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You didn't say if your "rapid play" was 5 minutes or 30 minutes. 30 minutes is considered "rapid play" or "action chess" in the states and yes, illegal moves are not allowed, so the position is reset and 2 minutes are added on to the opponent's clock.

However, in the states, 5 minute chess is different than action chess.

It was a rapid play.

I believe (I may be wrong) that taking the king is illegal in blitz as well. It is very unclear. Probably depends on the main set of rules you are using and the local rules as well.

The FIDE rules on blitz makes no mention of taking the king as a legal move so it just depends what the TD/Arbiter chooses to uphold.

Just to follow up on that it says that in FIDE BLITZ rules (15 minutes each or less) that if an opponent makes an illegal move than the player can automatically claim the win.

I dont know how similar the american and FIDE rules are, (from what i gather the USCF rules stay the same as FIDE for the most part) but if this is the case then the guy who took the king has made an illegal move (even though it is blitz) and the opponent can claim the win.

Originally posted by nmc987
Just to follow up on that it says that in FIDE BLITZ rules (15 minutes each or less) that if an opponent makes an illegal move than the player can automatically claim the win.

I dont know how similar the american and FIDE rules are, (from what i gather the USCF rules stay the same as FIDE for the most part) but if this is the case then the guy who took the king has made an illegal move (even though it is blitz) and the opponent can claim the win.

Back it up a move... the guy who moved his king into check made the illegal move! Hence, the same result as allowing the king to be taken - he loses.

Originally posted by arrakis
Back it up a move... the guy who moved his king into check made the illegal move! Hence, the same result as allowing the king to be taken - he loses.

I saw that reponse coming.

It is true that the person before hand has made an illegal move. But the rules say you must claim the illegal move straight away without making a move yourself. Once you have made a move you have lost the right to claim the illegal move.

So in this case if a person moves while his king is still in check it must immediately be claimed by the opponent.

If the person decides to capture the king instead he has made a move and lost his right to claim the illegal move.

Then the opponent who had his king taken can claim a illegal move and either (win blitz) or (get 2 minutes rapidplay/longplay)

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A player forfeits his right to a claim against his opponent`s violation of Article 4.3 or 4.4, (edit rules about making the moves at the board) once he deliberately touches a piece.
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If a player takes the king and 2 minutes are added to the opponent then the position is taken back to when the king was in check and a new (legal) move is made.

Im sure this is the rule I have played under and it is handy to know. Ive never used it in practice but im sure one day i will when some over eager player whips off my king.

Originally posted by nmc987
I saw that reponse coming.

It is true that the person before hand has made an illegal move. But the rules say you must claim the illegal move straight away without making a move yourself. Once you have made a move you have lost the right to claim the illegal move.

So in this case if a person moves while his king is still in check it must immediately b ...[text shortened]... er used it in practice but im sure one day i will when some over eager player whips off my king.

We are talking about the same point except that you are trying to force Fide rules in American tournaments. Perhaps the American way is better, eh?