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  1. 22 Jan '08 23:01
    How does an experienced player go about learning d4 proper, i.e., 1. d4 and 2. c4? I've never been able to understand the main lines of the major openings that come from 1. ...d5 and 1. ...Nf6 (QGD, Slav, Nimzo, KID, etc.) and the offbeat stuff such as the Albin, Chigorin, Budapest, etc.

    I always stayed in safe d4 openings -- Torre, London, Colle and such. I took up 1. c4 to avoid d4 theory, but now I want a better secondary opening than the London System and Larsen's opening. Playing the same move as white every game has got to be boring, but it's also easy to get bogged down in the Reti and some other hypermodern openings. I need something with more punch and i'm thinkling this is the way to go. I'm also not interested in 1. e4 at all!

    I guess I need a d4 "beginner's" style book to try and understand the first 10 moves for each side, or something similar. I've read about Chris Ward's QG book here, but they may be a bit too deep to start with.

    Any suggestions on how to proceed?
  2. Standard member irontigran
    Rob Scheider is..
    22 Jan '08 23:14
    a book i have is "attacking with 1.d4"
    its really light, and gives you an attacking line to each possible defense..
  3. 22 Jan '08 23:39
    Originally posted by Crushing Day
    How does an experienced player go about learning d4 proper, i.e., 1. d4 and 2. c4? I've never been able to understand the main lines of the major openings that come from 1. ...d5 and 1. ...Nf6 (QGD, Slav, Nimzo, KID, etc.) and the offbeat stuff such as the Albin, Chigorin, Budapest, etc.

    I always stayed in safe d4 openings -- Torre, London, Colle ...[text shortened]... e, but they may be a bit too deep to start with.

    Any suggestions on how to proceed?
    Practice,practice,practice and then more practice it's the only way.....
  4. 22 Jan '08 23:58
    Originally posted by irontigran
    a book i have is "attacking with 1.d4"
    its really light, and gives you an attacking line to each possible defense..
    I have that one, and other than the exchange QGD, I wasn't happy with any of the lines. In particular, the 4-pawns attack against the benoni isn't really covered. They say something to the effect of this is the same against the KID and Benoni, then use exclusively KID move orders. Needless to say, black can easily deviate. I also don't like f3 against the nimzo all that much, though the games are interesting.
  5. 23 Jan '08 00:08
    Originally posted by irontigran
    a book i have is "attacking with 1.d4"
    its really light...
    That made me chuckle.
  6. Standard member irontigran
    Rob Scheider is..
    23 Jan '08 00:26
    Originally posted by Squelchbelch
    That made me chuckle.
    hehehe, glad had some fun
    its true though.. im honest ya know
  7. 23 Jan '08 01:29
    Originally posted by Crushing Day
    How does an experienced player go about learning d4 proper, i.e., 1. d4 and 2. c4? I've never been able to understand the main lines of the major openings that come from 1. ...d5 and 1. ...Nf6 (QGD, Slav, Nimzo, KID, etc.) and the offbeat stuff such as the Albin, Chigorin, Budapest, etc.

    I always stayed in safe d4 openings -- Torre, London, Colle ...[text shortened]... e, but they may be a bit too deep to start with.

    Any suggestions on how to proceed?
    I know this is off-topic, but are you a fan of Joe Satriani by any chance?
  8. 23 Jan '08 01:47
    Surfing with the alien-- yes! Also a fan of Korn-- I saw irontigran's avatar and recognized it.

    C'mon D4 fanatics -- help me out!
  9. 23 Jan '08 02:53
    I wonder if we'd be seeing all these threads were it not for the fashion winds blowing from Mexico. Anyway, I'd recommend Ward's Play 1.d4 against the Slavs and QGD but I'm not sure what's good for the rest. For now, you can take a shortcut with 2. Bg5, the Tromp.
  10. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    23 Jan '08 04:01
    Originally posted by Crushing Day

    I guess I need a d4 "beginner's" style book to try and understand the first 10 moves for each side, or something similar. I've read about Chris Ward's QG book here, but they may be a bit too deep to start with.

    Any suggestions on how to proceed?
    baburin's "winning pawn structures" was what sold the idea to me. don't let the name fool you, it's all about playing d4.
  11. 23 Jan '08 04:17
    Originally posted by Crushing Day
    How does an experienced player go about learning d4 proper, i.e., 1. d4 and 2. c4? I've never been able to understand the main lines of the major openings that come from 1. ...d5 and 1. ...Nf6 (QGD, Slav, Nimzo, KID, etc.) and the offbeat stuff such as the Albin, Chigorin, Budapest, etc.

    I always stayed in safe d4 openings -- Torre, London, Colle ...[text shortened]... e, but they may be a bit too deep to start with.

    Any suggestions on how to proceed?
    I did something similar, not too long ago. Only a short year ago, the only openings I played began with 1. e4 followed by either 1. ...e5 or c5. Then, I kinda broke through a certain rating barrier, and found myself surrounded by 1. d4 players. I decided to try it out.

    What I did, and I recommend this, is I studied the games of masters who played that opening frequently. I bought a used copy of "Alexander Alekhine's best games 1924-1937" and studied his games with the queen's gambit or the slav/semislav, or the indian defenses. I also used chessgames.com to study more games in this opening. Now, I can comfortably play any opening OTB beginning with e4 or d4. It also taught me a lot about the bad bishop, the classical pawn structure, and even some new positional thinking techniques.

    Anyway, that's what I did.
  12. 23 Jan '08 08:57
    I've read about Chris Ward's QG book here, but they may be a bit too deep to start with.

    Well I wouldn't say this book is too deep at all. It's very accessible and a good starter kit. The book is well organised and covers the QG very well. It has referances to follow up if you wish but isn't densely packed with long variations. There are a range of annotated whole games to illustrate many of the themes. It's been my 1.d4 bible since I took up this opening about a year ago and I've become a fan of Chris Ward as a chess writer.

    My only deviation or indulgence if you like is to play 2.Bg5 in reply to 1....Nf6 and play the unbalanced but challenging and creative Trompovsky for which I refer to Peter Wells excellent book.
  13. 23 Jan '08 12:39
    My only deviation or indulgence if you like is to play 2.Bg5 in reply to 1....Nf6 and play the unbalanced but challenging and creative Trompovsky for which I refer to Peter Wells excellent book.[/b]
    Thanks Mahout for the info... I need to check out Ward's book-- read nothing but good things about it so far!!


    Just curious as to why you play the Tromp and not 2. c4 vs. 1. ...Nf6 -- is it to avoid the KID, Nimzo and others-- or just trying to throw Black out of his comfort zone with 2. Bg5?

    I liked 1. b3 better than the London for that reason-- to sidestep the KID!
  14. 23 Jan '08 13:30
    Originally posted by Crushing Day
    Thanks Mahout for the info... I need to check out Ward's book-- read nothing but good things about it so far!!


    Just curious as to why you play the Tromp and not 2. c4 vs. 1. ...Nf6 -- is it to avoid the KID, Nimzo and others-- or just trying to throw Black out of his comfort zone with 2. Bg5?

    I liked 1. b3 better than the London for that reason-- to sidestep the KID!
    It's simply that I like the Tromp. There is something appealing about the asymmetric and unbalanced nature of the positions that appeals to my sense of creativity.

    It can throw people out of their comfort zone esp OTB and I don't think there is ever a quiet game. Having said that it's not an easy one to learn.

    One advantage is that as I play 1...Nf6 (aiming for KID) in response to 1.d4...I'm already prepared should some one try the Tromp against me.

    Yes it also seems to avoid the Nimzo and some of blacks other good continuations (although I can't claim to know about any transpositions), so it should force black along lines that I've studied in terrain they may well be unfamiliar with.